SD Gifts to DH
I need some honest feedback. SD, who is nearly 18, presented her father with a gift recently. And it has me raising my eyebrows. The gift was a a portait of the two of them on one side of a frame, and then on the other, a series of phrases/sentiments. At first I thought it was sweet, until I read... here are a few of the phrases:
- 'You are my #1 Dad and I'm your #1 Girl'
- 'You were my first love, before any other man in my life'
- 'We can complete each others sentences'
- 'You put a smile on my face every morning and every night'
- 'Your love completes me and builds me up'
- 'We understand each other more than anyone else in this world'
- 'I ALWAYS know what you are thinking'
- 'When you cry, I cry. When you hurt, I hurt. When you are happy, I am happy.'
- 'We can tell each other anything.'
Now, keep in mind, SD has a serious, long term boyfriend. This is the kind of gift, or variant of it, I would expect her to give the boyfriend, but not her Dad.
Am I overreacting? She is incredibly clingly with DH; DH has absolutely overshared information with her and not treated SD as a daughter, but rather as a peer and confidante, to include complaints about our marriage. So maybe this is bothering me more than it would others?
RED FLAG!!!
Enmeshment. Emotional Incest. Your red flags are blowing like crazy. These are sentiments that an 18 year old female should be giving to her boyfriend. You are going to have a whole sh**load of SMs respond to this with ***warning...danger...danger**** and rightly so. Read up on enmeshment as it pertains to father-daughter dynamics - it is the cause and cornerstone of mini-wfe syndrome and other unpleasant relationship dysfunctions created when a parent does not hold the line on appropriate parental boundaries.
So what does DH think about this gift? I bet he's clueless.
DH is at fault...
He's perpetuated this. While he has occasional moments of clarity, he generally either doesn't see it, or pretends that it's ok. Mainly because he loves the attention, and his daughter gives him tons of it. Sadly, she plays him really well to get what she wants out of him, but she also craves endless amounts of attention from him. He hates his ex-wife (BM) and so does SD. They commisserate over how awful BM is.
I have told DH before that he treats her like a spouse at times, and at best, like a peer. They will plan things together without discussing any of it with me, even when it impacts me. They've gone to concerts together where he's allowed her to drink and had a beer or two with her (she was 16 at the time and had her friends with her, whom he also provided alcohol). He tells her far too much about his life, me, and complaints about his ex (her mom). If she overhears a heated discussion and comes in, we will end the discussion, but she'll go sit with him and console him. They spend hours at a time in her room gossiping, complaining, joking around. They stay up late together, even during the work week - very often I am going to bed alone. She wants to come live with us full time; I told DH I thought it was a bad idea since since she has intentionally caused problems for us, and has been rude to me - to the point that she thinks she's the mom/wife in the house. And really, DH allowed her to think that way and allows her to take over. When I mentioned the unhealthy dynamic that he perpetuated, he blew up at me.
I don't blame her - she has two parents who created this dynamic, especially DH.
Truth and tolerance
NOT GOOD. DH needs to stop propogating this behavior...he is definitely hooked on the "attention" payback. How frank have you been with him on the dysfunction? Can you go there with him or will he get defensive and shut you out?
It took several years for me to pinpoint all the crazy behavior and confront DH. Afterwards, it took months for me to even get DH to dialogue about the enmeshment issues with SD. They emotionally colluded with the same dysfunctional behaviors. DH really didn't realize the depth of the damage he was doing until one particular incident crossed the threshold of "being able to rationalize the behavior." SD got overtly sexual with him and I used this incident to take the blinders off DH.
I don't know what it's going to take to get your DH to see the light OR if he is even willing to do this. That photo and the sentiments are pretty twisted. You have to bring this issue to the surface before you can even attempt to amend it. Don't be afraid to say what you are thinking. Holding it in will destroy you with resentment. DH NEEDS TO DRAW BOUNDARIES NOW.
He hid it...
So to start, he hid the 'gift' SD gave him. Which means he knows it was innapropriate, or he has it in his head that I am going to be "jealous" of it "for no real reason".
I have approached this before with him. Even in front of a counselor. And he has pointed the finger right back at me - that I am jealous (not in the slightest, I disgusted not envious), and that I don't understand a good father/daughter bond (not true, I just understand boundaries). The counselor did discuss boundaries with him. He argued with her too.
I'll respond to some of the comments (thanks to everyone for those), but first, I also want to tell you about this past weekend. DH and SD boyfriend spent no less than three hours discussing SD, how much they both love her, how toxic BM is, what they need to do to support SD, etc. SD was there for some of the conversation but not all (she had to leave at some point for a school event, whereas her BF stayed), and once I realized what they were talking about, I listened to bits and pieces while I was in the kitchen with LOs. And once again, DH didn't come to bed with me either night. He was up with SD or both SD/SS both nights. On Saturday night, DH waited until SD got home from her date, and they stayed up talking until 130am just the two of them. She is going to have massive long term Daddy issues, and I don't even know what he's going to do once she leaves for college in the fall. I suspect he will be flying there monthly to see her.
Why do I stay? Because I don't entirely trust DH with LOs. He has made it clear he resents have a young family again, and does utterly careless things with them. Nothing that would cause him to lose custody, but enough that LOs need me around full time. Once they are older, and can communicate with me better, use a phone, etc, I will consider an out.
It's nauseating and
It's nauseating and inappropriate.
.
And your DH
Just thinks this is OK???? That where the problem is. Father’s are supposed to teach there kids to be normal, hard working, adults. Sure look like he missed that boat. DH is at fault more then SD
The only phrase in that list
The only phrase in that list that doesn't make me raise my eyebrow off my forehead is the "You're My #1 Dad", and only THAT part of that phrase.
You're not overreacting. That's a lot much.
Yep
I thought the same. I tried to rationalize the "#1 girl part" because he told her that when she was little. But even that bugs me.
Ewwwww. Gross.
Ewwwww. Gross.
That would scream enmeshment with a boyfriend, much less a father. Blech.
Agreed
I've never talked this way to my husband.... or to any boyfriend. When I think about writing something like that to my Dad or grandfathers... just... yuuuuuck!! To DH, maybe early on, I might have said something like "I think about you a lot when we are apart" or "We seem to finish each others sentences". But that's about it....
Ew.
Ew.
He provided alcohol to 16 year old girls?
He provided alcohol to 16 year old girls? What kind of a father does that?
After reading your further description of their relationship, I'm not sure why you stay. He complains to her about your marriage and you often go to bed alone when she is visiting - it sounds like she is the "other woman" in your marriage. The dynamic is not normal.
A lousy father.... that's who!
I was furious when I found out. He wants to be young and carefree again, and he's totally enmeshed emotionally with his daughter, so of course he was going to treat that night more like a date or group outing with friends. He should have been the chaperone watching over them. Instead he was partying with them. BM found out by snooping of SD phone - the idiot let someone take photos of them all with red solo cups. He could have gotten in big trouble for this. I only found out because I overheard DH talking with BM. DH lied and said it was soda - he later admitted to me that it was a mixed drinks.
So to recap, my moron DH gave hard alcohol to minors, and drank himself, at a public venue. And then drove them all home later that night.
There comes a time...
Where he has to love you more than he hates his ex. This is where I would start with him. Leave SD out of the discussion. WhWhty does he obsess over his ex and talk about her all the time? He still feels strong emotions for her and it was dishonest of him to marry you when he spends time talking to his daughter about his ex and both of them feeding on the negativity. This is their primary bond and common enemy. And THEN i would tell DH that hating his ex so much and his daughter hating her mother so much is unhealthy and sick. Why? Because SD is half her mother. Which means he hates half his daughter and she hates half of herself.I
Or you can tell him his obsession with his daughter is preventing her from growing up and having a healthy relationship of her own. Emotionally stunting his daughter. And you are seriously considering your place in his life.
Emotional incest at best.
Emotional incest at best. I don’t even want to consider the worst case. This is nauseating.
agreed....
I've worried about that as well.
Going forward
I am expecting very little out of this relationship. Therapists are not getting through to him. But, as noted above, I will not leave until LOs are older and are able to communicate/call me as needed when with their Dad. I can't fix DH, but I can protect LOs and establish boundaries for them with their Dad.
I have to admire you for this.
There have been women in your situation on this site before - where she wants to leave an idiot DH, but fears their mutual children being in danger if left alone with him. It is a tough situation. If you don't have enough so he can only have supervised visitation, you are doing the smart thing - even if it requires a huge sacrifice.