I made a big mistake... and wasted an hour of my life!
In the past few weeks I've had a couple of offers to go away- one with my sisters and the other with my daughter. Because these trips are either side of DH's birthday (who from now on I am going to refer to as 'The Ostrich') I decided to take the bull by the horns and ask him if he had any plans for his birthday. I will say at this point that The Ostrich and I have had very few real conversations in the past year- yes it has been a year almost since I disengaged and found this wonderful site- and although I didn't really want to have this conversation I knew people were waiting for me to make a decision. I made a mistake- I should just have booked the tickets without saying anything to The Ostrich.
These are some of the things he said instead of answering my question:
He's thinking of leaving
He knew we would be having this conversation soon but also said he wouldn't have started it
He did not deny that he loves his children more than me
His children are not welcome at our home
He doesn't see a problem with providing for them even though they are all adults
He did not tell me that he loved me at all
He said I was crazy, but then backtracked when I challenged him
He said he had not thought anything about his retirement even though it is less than three months away and coincides with his birthday
These are some of the things I said to him in no particular order:
I could have just booked the holidays without telling him
He never really listened to why I decided to disengage
I am fourth in his priorities after his kids, his job, and his boat
That his kids are not teenagers, but he still treats them as they are
That my family and his family are external to our relationship
That I treat my children like the adults they are
That I love him, want him to be happy and I will be the one taking care of him when his kids don't
That I don't need to be involved with his family
That OSD has never liked me, and has always wanted to drive a wedge between us, and that she's won
Of course in all this I lost my temper whilst he stayed calm, which I hadn't wanted to happen. In the end I went back to my original question and he said he had no plans for any holidays and would look at his retirement papers when he felt like it. He said he doesn't make plans- which means to me that he's burying his head in the sand, hence my new name for him.
I don't have my next counselling appointment for three weeks- but I will be booking holidays with my sisters and my daughter. He can go to work and do things for his kids, which really sums up his life.
I'm staying here because I have no where else to go- if he wants to leave he can go- though where I don't know. I can run a nice B&B (mates rates for steptalkers!) and live my own life.
Somehow I don't think he'll leave but he has given me carte blanche to live my own life. Here's to going away with people who really appreciate me and he can drown in the pit of his own mediocrity and dullness.
Wow. I would make those plans
Wow. I would make those plans and have a great time without ever looking back. Enjoy your vacations!
This made me ill to read. I
:sick: This made me ill to read. I am so sorry girl. I support that you get the hell out of there just as soon as you can. When the things he said are delivered in a calm and composed manner than that is most likely exactly how he really feels. Is this the first time he has ever said any of these things to you? Like Tiger said go and enjoy your vacation. The best revenge is living well as they say.
He said he doesn't make
He said he doesn't make plans. Well, okay, but that doesn't mean YOU don't make plans.
Super passive aggressive move -- he won't make plans, expecting you to hold off making your plans until he decides what to do and by then it's too late for you to take the trip for which you've received an invitation.
Go book your tickets.
First thing tomorrow! He's
First thing tomorrow! He's done me such a favour really because I thought there was still some hope- but now I know there is no chance. All the advice I've received on here was spot on- live your own life, do what makes you happy etc etc. I feel better than I've felt for months! What a pathetic, lazy thinking specimen of a man he is.
I am not leaving- we share
I am not leaving- we share ownership on this house and I couldn't afford to buy him out- so he has no intention of leaving- he just said it as a shot across the bows. I love this house more than I love him- it is my refuge and my haven and because he works so much and spends so much time with his entitled off-spring he's hardly here anyway.
We have had many conversations in the past when I told him home-truths but he just put his head in the sand and I eventually stopped speaking about it. He said it took him by surprise to get a letter about his pension (as if he doesn't even know how old he is!) and he will try and find it and have another look at it when he gets 'round' to it. Which means never.
And all this because I thought it was more polite to tell him of my plans. I'm a planner- he's a I'll just go to work every day until the world ends kinda guy because it's easier than thinking or having any ideas at all.
Well he can carry on being Mr Nobody... and I'll just have as much fun as I can.
This wasn't the whole sum of
This wasn't the whole sum of what was said, obviously- however, I don't think he really wants to leave- it is just the sort of thing childish people say in response to reasonable questions. The fact is he can't afford to buy me out either- we would both be poor and unable to live comfortably as we do now. However, it is clear that he doesn't love me as much as I thought he did. A few minutes after this conversation- when he said he had no plans to go away with me I just said I would book my flights then. Things carried on as if nothing had happened- he even kissed me good-night like he always does. It resolved nothing because he doesn't want to change anything. I can live my life and he can live his.
We shall see...
Let this jerk leave kind lady
Let this jerk leave kind lady and stay in your home, you'll be fine in a few short months; and, he can continue his love affair with his adult children at another location. You have not lost anything but misery. Look for a man without kids if possible, next time. Better yet, just date....period, regardless. There are some men out there that can handle this dynamic, but they are rare from what I am reading....
We're both too old to date-
We're both too old to date- been there, done that and got The Ostrich! I am not living in misery, far from it- but I made a mistake and I'll move on now and enjoy my holidays.
Fairyo, you are not too old
Fairyo, you are not too old to date. My Dad remarried at 86 to his 84yo bride.
That gives me hope Aniki!
That gives me hope Aniki!
Fairyo, there is ALWAYS hope,
Fairyo, there is ALWAYS hope, if you believe!!! {{hugs}}
I am sorry this has happened,
I am sorry this has happened, FairyO. But why would you stay there? You have already mentioned that you left your family to move to a place where you were not crazy to live. Had I heard that type of forecast from my DH, I would be telling him I would make it easy for him. You can open up a B&B where you came from.
I would not look at it as making a mistake for bringing something up. You have been afraid to have this conversation with him for some time. I think it's better to know where you stand. Reality is a friend. Many of us are getting older and I am not wasting my time with someone who does not want to be my partner. I would rather be alone.
I hope that you have a great time on your holiday and think about how you want to spend your golden years. You deserve better.
Aw- thanks Lamby- I have
Aw- thanks Lamby- I have often thought of going home, yes.I have often thought of going to live near my daughter. I know I could do it if the will was sufficient, and if the finances were enough. I earn a very small wage and if I moved could not afford to live on my pension- why would I exchange comfort for hardship?
You are right about my being afraid to have the conversation, and I regret saying anything (except that now I can go and have a blast with people whose love I never question) because he thought status quo was restored within minutes of ending the dialogue. It was like it had never happened.
You are right that I can go away and be frank with my family about where I stand- they know things haven't been right for sometime and they do care about me. Maybe I am being too negative- what I have made here I can re-create somewhere else, though not on this scale.
Reality is my friend, and I know I have friends here too. Thank you.
My dear dear friend...... as
My dear dear friend...... as long as the 2 off you share a house, nothing will change, I'm sorry but it's true, yes you love him, and he loves you but he will have to figure this out on his own, and it's only going to happen if he does not see you daily, smell you in the house etc.
May I suggest something, put the house up for sale, then simply get a small apartment and move out, he can cover the full cost of the house, you invoice him your share as "rent" But the house needs to go so that you can have a clean cut.... if you end up together again you can start with a new place, remember a home/house is what you make off it, it does not make you...
While you are there Ostrich will carry on doing what he's doing, cause he knows you are there, it's simply the same relationship as between him and his children.. in your relationship your are the parent and he's the child...... Are you really prepared to look after him for the rest of his life? He's going on pension, you are there with income thus he can support his brats, he will get sick, his kids will ignore him , swear at you and you will become the free care taker, picking up all the bills, ... Rather cut ties now and let him feel for a change, turn him into an adult. He will soon enough realize that his kids gives a damn about him, they only want the money. He will run back to you after a month or so, and say I made a mistake I love you... you still do not take him back, you sit back and say... well you will have to proof it to me, you will have to show me I'm your first priority, you will have to woo me and date me again until the trust is restored....
But regardless what happens, the house needs to be sold, you need to cut all ties.... Even though SO and I are back together, the house is still in the market and it will go, SO is trying to get out of it, he said he will get it painted and cleaned up (yard etc) he's not doing a thing about it, I gave him 3 months to do it, nothing... I ordered the paint and the contractor, I already told the gardener what to do with the yard and ordered new plants, SO had enough time, this house will be sold and we will start new... a place where Aergia never lived, where she will always be a guest, using the guest room and bathroom.... Oh I'm leaving his work room (tipple garage) for the time being alone but if all the other stuff is done and he has not started cleaning it, I'm going to and he will not be happy but I give a shyt.
Acrat your advice is always
Acrat your advice is always welcome, and I know I can trust you because of your experiences too. Without going into too much about what this house means to me I suppose you're right, it now means shattered dreams. It is in very good condition to sell, but in the current climate in Fairyland I don't know if we would make enough on it.
I know I took a risk coming her and I bitterly regret selling my other property- but it's gone and that's that.
Maybe I could get a valuation, or maybe we could rent it out, but the more I think about it the more these do not seem great options.
I don't think The Ostrich has learned anything from his previous three marriages- they certainly didn't make him 'grow up' so selling the property wouldn't achieve that aim. Why should I care if he grows up or not? Yes, I was prepared to be the one to care for him, but I need to care for myself first and foremost. I don't want to cut off my nose to spite my face.
I really don't think this has very much to do with his kids at all (although he still thinks it does)- but it has everything to do with what I want for myself and whether I can ever see him again as my life partner.
Your SO is so like The Ostrich, in that it is me that organises the tradesmen, keeps the house tip top, and he just goes along with it, because he doesn't care about this place at all.
I know you are working hard on your SO and your relationship and you are one heck of a woman, so no wonder he's come back. The truth for me though is once he's gone I wouldn't want him back- at least as no more than an old friend.
It was interesting that in all the conversation we had last night sex was never mentioned, yet he still gave me a kiss before he went to bed. It felt like the kiss OSD gave me the last time I saw her, empty and meaningless.
I'm sure when he comes back from work tonight things will be the same- we'll share a meal in silence and watch tv together and he'll think he's still got me. Truth is, he never really had me...
Fairy - stop looking at it as
Fairy - stop looking at it as shattered dreams, start looking at it as a new beginning, for YOU... you are the most important person in this relationship and you need to allow your inner you to come out, enjoy life and live it, why give it up for some one who's taking it for granted ?
I put the house in the market, at the price I want, I'm not going for lesser money and if it has to be in market for a year, so be it, SO is paying for it, his 50% bond and my 50% as rent, if he can buy me out in a years time so be it, I simply want my cash out of it, it's business not love...
When we broke up I made the decision.... I do not want anything binding us anymore, with the next break up it will be clean and done... if there's a next one, but as soon as there's shared property etc it gets way to complicated.
And Hon, I walked away, I do not work at it any more, SO has to choose, will he compromise and join me on a new road, or will he keep on with his old road, I'm not going to walk on an old road anymore, when you meet some one new, you both start a new road... I'm keeping to my decision.
The more SO compromise the more I will, but he's doing all the work, I've done it for almost 15 years, now it's his turn. yes I though he would not care, and enjoy his life like he use to but after 2 weeks, he caved... He thought I would always be there, picking up , I stopped...
I decided at that stage, fine this is not how it should be, I'm walking away, if he follows I will try, if he does not follow me, then so be it, not going to waste my life on him... I think if you do the same your DH will have the freight of his life... remember he's not 40 something anymore, thus his chances of finding some one else is slim..... and well if he does move on, at least you did not waste your whole life on him... you are a strong beautiful woman and there's still guys out there finding you worthy
But currently you are in a runt.... you need to get out... if all else fails, start doing pole dancing lol... to get your life kick started again.
I think it happens with all people a certain age,
Thank you my friend- you are
Thank you my friend- you are right it may well be a new beginning and it is up to me to start again. I may suggest a valuation on the house, or just get one done myself. We have both sold properties before and it is tough. I have a good quality of life here- I can have my holidays which I couldn't if I was on my own. I've lived in poverty and don't want to go back there- where I live things are cheap and if I moved I would need more money just to live. So, it is about making sure I don't waste energy on The Ostrich. He is a tough old bird and knows that the world will turn whilst he has that head buried with only his arse sticking out. I don't feel as if I'm wasting my life-I just need to stop thinking, as you have, that he can be a part of it without my terms.
Ha ha- and the pole dancing?? I suppose I could give it a try!!
yes pole dancing it is
yes pole dancing it is then...
and you've got nothing to loose to get the house valued again, maybe he will take his head out of the sand long enough to see he's loosing an awesome woman
If not kill him with pole dancing hahahahahaha
You just have to find your own happiness HOn, then things will look totally different,
I am supposed to be working,
I am supposed to be working, so admittedly, I didn't read all the replies. But damn. There is no love like loving a beautiful house or a dog!
If the only way you can have the house is to stay with him, then I vote for you to find your way in this *modern* relationship in your fantastic house. But you have to get to a good place with him and his so you can enjoy the house. And that might mean putting the romantic relationship behind you. I think you're doing the right thing with therapy - if he can't get right, you get right on your own.
It's OK to live as roommates, but it's hard after romance. If you can find a way to do it, I say do it. Maybe your fantastic house is the motivation you both need to find a peaceful dynamic and that's how you pose it to him: "we both love this house and we've worked hard to have it. Let's work hard to keep it, even if the parameters of our relationship have changed." But if you can't separate emotions and live peacefully, maybe the house isn't worth it.
And thanks for the mate rate! I'm packing right now!
Thanks Marble- we haven't had
Thanks Marble- we haven't had a romantic relationship for a long time, so we're already there. I should have just got on that plane and told him where I'd been when I got back! I have learned my lesson. He thinks everything is back to normal today and in a way it is. I was trying to imagine people coming to look through my house today, and what I would take etc. It would be painfully sad- I never thought that I would live somewhere like this and now I have it I cannot let it go. I don't think many people get it, but it seems to be so right for me. Hard to explain really.
fairyo; I am one of those
fairyo; I am one of those people that "get it". I have earned what I have and I won't leave it; nor do I expect DH to leave it; he has also earned what we have.
I just quit making a fuss and moved on with my life. Now DH needs me, due to health issues. It's a crazy world, but I am content with my decisions to stand my ground, disengage for stepkids, especially SD57 and family. I have my dignity back, I have lots of hobbies, and I maintain my friendships more now than ever.
I never requested that DH change or disregard his kids and grandkids; all I ask was that I not be required to be part of their aggression. I just woke up one day and I didn't care any longer.
It seems to be working out for us, because I care enough to stay and take care of DH "thru sickness and health". He now knows the dedication I have for our marriage and the life we have together. He also knows why I disengaged and is accepting it. Our marriage (38 years) is different and is also without the romance; but we have regained the intimate relationship in a different way; maybe it's our age and his health combined, who knows.
DH tells me daily how he appreciates what I am now doing for him. Hope it lasts, but who knows. His kids don't come around much, now that his health has went down hill. I have said it before here, and I will say it again; I will not give up 38 years of hard work, my marriage, and love that we have.
Yes, I get it! I know there can be a marriage with different love, different romance, a couple can agree to disagree, and having one's private thoughts is priceless, when laced with peace. I take care of myself both mentally and physically.
Thinking of you through this rough time. I've been there.
Thanks Sammi- I know how
Thanks Sammi- I know how tough it has been for you (and still is) - when I think of the future there is nothing to be gained for either of us in leaving. Although The Ostrich does have his head in the sand right now it cannot be that way forever- sooner or later someone or something is going to kick his bum and force him to look at where he is. I think some of his problems lie in his refusal to accept that I am right- right about his children and right about his need to take some leisure time- but he cannot for some reason take any action. The skids I can leave- I think he realised what I was talking about- but the issues over his retirement do have a direct impact on me- I think he genuinely dreads me carrying on earning after he's finished, even though I work very few hours. He uses money to control people, but my having my own money takes that control away. It also leaves him powerless in bargaining over the house. In the past he's walked away and paid his wives off but he can't do that with me- it is a far more equitable situation than he has been in before.
I know that we will work this out- it is painful and exhausting for me but I left my passport on the table last night, as a sign that I was taking my holidays without him. He did notice and his mood did seem to change.
I feel very strong right now and thank you from the bottom of my heart for getting me to this place. ((((hugs)))
"He never really listened to
"He never really listened to why I decided to disengage"
I believe that telling your spouse you are "disengaging" is almost always a mistake. Disengaging should be done in a ghosting fashion... just begin to "not do" stuff...
When we tell a spouse we are disengaging... all they hear is I HATE YOUR KIDS.
The "reasons" you disengaged are just more ways you are trying to tear down their child in front of them... A parent is not likely to agree with most of your assessments anyway.
Announcing it is just setting up another point of conflict between you and your SO.. another reason for it to become a You vs Them dynamic.
Sorry your DH went there with the conversation... but sometimes being too honest and blunt isn't particularly helpful.
I didn't think my
I didn't think my disengagement was so up-front.I certainly didn't announce it- but it was odd that it followed a conversation that friends had encouraged me to have, as they could sense my pain.
I also realised that maybe his kids don't feel the way I thought they did- he told me that what I thought OSD had said were actually his own words! So he was the one who thought I was evil all along. This is why it isn't really about his kids anymore. I have never disrespected his children- in fact I told him they were always welcome, but I think he needed a stick to beat me with, and hating his kids seems to be one of them.
Honest and blunt is who I am, I was really far more restrained last night that I wanted to be! No wonder I kept my mouth shut for so long...
Sweet fairyo, I'm sorry for
Sweet fairyo, I'm sorry for everything you've had to cope with while involved romantically with the Ostrich.
This man seems to be emotionally damaged/stunted. I doubt he's capable of sustaining a healthy relationship with any woman. Maybe he thought he could with you, maybe he wishes he could because he enjoys the idea of partnership, but it sounds as if you're ready to accept that he's incapable of giving you what you need. And shame on him for continuing to pursue intimate relationships when he must know he has problems with intimacy.
There's a lot of gray area to be explored if you decide to change your relationship to one of housemates. There's nothing new under the sun, so there must be a percentage of failed relationships where this happens for a variety of reasons.
If you want to stay in your home and feel that you can and the transition emotionally, then why not? No reason you should suffer for your STBX's shortcomings. Just make sure you are protected financially.
look out for yourself. His
look out for yourself. His lack of interest in his pension may be a way to keep it from you. Depending on how long you have been married you are entitled to a piece of it. If he seperates from you or divorces you prior to signing the paperwork, he can cut you out. If you are married, you would have to sign off on him not giving you a survivor's benefit. talk to an attorney is my advice.
What a sad commentary on the
What a sad commentary on the lack of manhood in the person you are married to.
My condolences.
Please enjoy the holidays with your sister and daughter.
Rather than waiting for DH to leave I would definitely take direct aggressive action to protect yourself in this situation and contact an attorney to make that happen.
Take care of you.
Thanks Rags- he certainly was
Thanks Rags- he certainly was at the back of the queue when the testosterone was handed out! I really don't see that his leaving would disadvantage me if I could remain in the house. He would have nothing to gain from leaving me; however, he could be that stupid.
Meanwhile I will continue to enjoy my life and the company of people who value and care for me.
I'm certainly not in denial-
I'm certainly not in denial- I am fully aware of the situation we are both in. I am not waiting around, that's The Ostriches position. I do not know his true financial position, that's for sure- but; we each equally own half shares in the house,so it cannot be sold unless we both agree. If he leaves I would have to pay his share and I am in no position to do that- neither is he in a position to buy me out. All we could do is sell the house and I don't want that, as it would not sell at a price that we would be satisfied with.
We have a joint account into which his wages are paid and I am party to all his payments from that account. I pay nothing in to that account. We also have a modest savings account in my name-so in the short term I could claim this as my own but as my capacity to earn is so low it would not last long were I to close it.
I have always made sound financial decisions and am no fool when it comes to protecting my own interests.
In the past The Ostrich was always extremely generous to his ex-wives, which is why he has so little money of his own left at this late stage in his life.
As for being caught with my pants down- I still don't see that he will, or can, leave unless he wants to live in penury.He could be that stupid, though.
No love or intimacy? I do love him, although I have had to forego intimacy it doesn't bother me that much any more. I have a great deal of love in my life- that's what keeps me going it just isn't from him.
hehehehe what will DH do if
hehehehe what will DH do if you show up in skimpy lacey something ? doing your pole dance.... if that does not get him excited... I suggest viagra, maybe due to stress he knows he can't be intimate with you and well not telling you....
You have to decide Hon do you want him back for some sheet gym, or are you content living like this, there's allot of ways getting the spark back, shout if you decided and we all will help you with ideas.
It's your life and your decision.... I always said I will get married age 70... in case I slip and fall, there's some one to call the ambulance then
Ha ha- I looked for pole
Ha ha- I looked for pole dancing lessons but only found yoga! I love the phrase sheet gym- and we have had some great 'work outs' in the past, but I went off it when he started to forget I existed anywhere except in the sack. There is something very dispiriting about a man who doesn't talk to you but when you're in the dark he suddenly wants to get to know you very well!!
It has always been my experience men will take any kind of crap if you give them some rumpy pumpy once in a while, but that isn't the sort of relationship I want in my life now.
On a positive note he has been without it for some time and is still here, so it can't be just the sex, he must see something else in me that he values, even though he doesn't express it.
Meanwhile I'll wear the lingerie I like and go to yoga...! And has for viagra- well, he knows where the chemist is!
Was he a cuddler? What would
Was he a cuddler? What would happen if you crawled into his bed and spooned him?
yes - do this.... we had a
yes - do this....
we had a chat over the week-end, if i want it and I give signals out SO is way to stupid to catch on, I feel rejected and I go cold...
If he wants it he will tell me, but seeing I'm never the instigator according to him, he feels like he's pressuring me and I'm not interested..
I asked him WTF did I rubbed your back and feet, definitely not cause I like it lol, it was a sign and if you opened up I would've rubbed something else as well..
Can you believe an adult man, thinking this way??
Oh and they are very insecure with their old man bodies lol..... even more so then what we are, thus we have to tell them, you look very good for your age Hon at least 100x a day..... I swear men are way more sex scared then what they show...
thus Fairyo... time for you to spoon a bit with DH, no sheet gym, simply spooning lol...
Ha ha trust me I have often
Ha ha trust me I have often thought of this as we've bedded down in our separate rooms- but then I think what I really want to do is read my book until I get sleepy and then I just relax in my own very comfy bed whilst hearing his continuous snoring from across the landing- trust me, it isn't sexy!
I have, on occasion, given The Ostrich a hug and massaged his shoulders and neck etc, and although he hasn't brushed me away neither has he intimated that he wanted to take it further, and he will no longer hold my hand if we're walking together, something which was always important to him in the past.
He also said something interesting the other night, which was that he didn't like hugging his grandkids, and that did surprise me. The enforced hugs (or 'kiss cuddles' as OSD insisted we give each other) was always an issue for me, especially as she never hugged me herself but oddly forced her children to do it!
The only time we share a bed is if we have visitors or stay over elsewhere, and I have seen that as an opportunity for spooning and more, but he just moves further over in the bed and makes it clear he doesn't want me.
A few months ago I tried inviting him back into my bed at the weekends but it didn't last.
Who knows? Neither of has ever had hung-ups over our body image- so I don't think it has anything to do with his anxieties over that. I think it really goes much deeper and has a lot to do with me asserting myself and not running after him, as it were.
be bold and direct
}:) }:) }:) be bold and direct lol........ if that does not help, nothing will,
but I think sex goes away the longer people are together, and the older we get, men use their libido from age 13, age 50+ they have nothing left,
we only star in our 30's lol....
This isn't about sex, it's
This isn't about sex, it's about cuddling. We're primates, we need it.
woman wants cuddling, men
woman wants cuddling, men wants sex... I know it's not about sex, it's about having a warm body beside you at night, companionship, friendship...
but some men are not capable of doing this.... they need to be taught
"I will be the one taking
"I will be the one taking care of him when his kids don't."
After all this I wouldn't. You go on your trips and let his kids change his old man diapers. Just keep giving and sacrificing until you're all used up...for what? For a man who has shown that he really doesn't care about you?
I suppose I feel that I owe
I suppose I feel that I owe him something after he looked after me and stood by me when I had cancer-, and also because I walked away from my ex when he was ill. We promise in sickness and in health- but I let my ex down on this one and I suppose these things carry over. This is part of the reason I'm continuing with the therapy-but none of us really know what the future holds. We may both enjoy good health for a long time, and I certainly intend to enjoy mine even if he takes his for granted.