HELP, UK. Parental alienation, SD5!
My husband tries calling his daughter every day, and at least 30 times since the start of the year, bio mum has not answered the phone. Often giving excuses, the main one being that their daughter has her phone! SD5 has her own phone (a basic one that she watches youtube on only)
My husband and bio mum came to an agreement, which was signed mid April. Since then, 6 times he's tried to call and had no response.
He's thinking of involving the police, because we found out that you can do that. Should we wait for it to become 10 times or do something now? I don't want to waste police time.
I've also recommended to my husband thay he continue with court.
We sent the application off early March and his ex flipped out. We told her that as soon as we get the agreement back we will stop the court process, we wanted to have the form there so we could submit it to the court so we could withdraw. But bio mum is stalling and hasn't returned them.
I'm hoping my husband continues with court, for the sake of his little girl. She deserves better. She doesn't need her mum spinning lies to her about her dad. We see that every time he calls, she is distant and hesitates to talk.
What do we do about this?
He needs to continue with
He needs to continue with court. Period. Even if he gets to talk to his daughter. Because it's quite likely the BM will go right back to ignoring the agreement.
Be forewarned: it sounds like parental alienation may always be lurking.
Go to court.
You need further legal advice
You need further legal advice. Bio mum obsviously doesn’t want to recieve these phone calls.
was it a legal agreement? Did the document say that he would phone at say 6pm on a Tuesday (some courts would think once a week would be enough were people are really not getting along).
Has he tried phoning his daughters phone? Or just texting a polite hello how are you to the little girls phone once a week to begin with whilst all this is sorted out.
Are there arrangements in place to see his daughter once or twice a week? If so I wouldn’t stress about lack of phone communication until you have been through the legal system.
Some dads may want phone calls every day to make themselves feel better. Some kids don’t have much to say in a phone, some kids would love it. Maybe someone could ask what the little girl would like.
If the little girl answers her phone somewhat regularly, and bio mum doesn’t want to speak to your partner, then I’m afraid she doesn’t have to.
I wouldn’t involve the police unless you have phone records proving the little girl hasn’t picked up her own phone over a substantial period of time, and even then consult a solicitor first.
I’m assuming he managed to contact bio mum another way (visitation?) as you say “often giving excuses”.
You also ‘told’ her that you
You also ‘told’ her that you would stop the court process once you got the agreement back.
Seriously? You expect someone to pick up their phone and be amicable. Hopefully it was a solicitor that drew up this letter and agreement. If not, I can see why she’s not playing ball.
The UK family legal system works on the basis that it is the child’s right to see the parents (not the parents right to see the children) If you find a solicitor who presents information like that clearly to everyone you may have more luck in the long run.
The agreement
The agreement was drafted by me, no legal background. But bio mum said she wanted a solicitor to sign it to make it legally binding.
So far she's been doing nothing
My husband doesn't want to put his daughter through court, he doesn't want her to see her parents doing that. He's trying to protect her. But sadly I think court is the only option left.
I'm confused - is their
I'm confused - is their agreement legal? What is the "application" that you sent off that she flipped her lid about?
Continue with court UNLESS you start getting repeated appearances where the judge does nothing. Don't spend 50K on phone calls, it's not worth it.
If you have court order for
If you have court order for the phone calls or visits and BM is not complying with them I suggest you head back to court. We have contempt hearings in the US- which after enough of them lead to fees, jail time or even custody switches if one parent refuses to follow the order. I would think something similar would be the case there.
Childlawadvice.org.uk has
Childlawadvice.org.uk has some useful information.
there is a bit in it that says if there is a legal/court agreement then it generally states times and days contact can be made.
Unfortunately for you, he must stick to these dates and times and avoid any contact out of this (unless parents change their mind later down the line).
If she doesn’t comply then you certainly need to go to court.
However, If things gave gotten this bad, then he doesn’t have the right to call ‘whenever he wants’, then complain the phone isn’t being picked up.
We had that problem with SS.
We had that problem with SS. Early on, there were weekly facetime calls awarded. If SS didn't answer at the scheduled time DH would try again the next day, then at a different time the following day, so on ect.
DH was told by the GAL to stop, only call on the actual court ordered day so that you aren't creating a hostile environment and "blowing up his phone". If SS doesn't respond, reach out to BM to reschedule. If she doesn't respond and coordinate and if it goes on for more than a couple of weeks- file contempt. That is straight from the GAL.
Clearing things up
Sd5 can't read all that well. And her phone doesn't have a sim card. I think they've moved her over to a tablet now. She plays pokemon go. And BM would never give my husband that phone number.
The agreement isn't court ordered. My husband wanted to get things resolved peacefully without going to court, but BM was giving him no way to be a dad. She didn't tell him about SD school, until she was already there. Her excuse was that we don't live in there town so why should he be involved in choosing her education.
My husband is upset hes missed out on so much. And I guess we're both just looking for some insight.
We live about 180 miles away. BM took their daughter in 2017 to live up there, the circumstances weren't nice. She made false allegations against my husband to get him arrested so he was out of the way just so she could skip town.
She keeps saying the police told her to. But we spoke to three police, and they stated that kind of advice shouldn't have been given, and they highly doubt it was given to BM.
We already know shes controlling and compulsive. At the beginning of my relationship with my husband, BM got a stranger to message me saying she had recently slept with my husband, boyfriend back then.
The stranger came clean about it all, saying it was a lie and that BM, they said her name, was just "looking out for me". I've known my husband longer than she has. And I've never known him to cheat on anyone.
I just don't know what to do. I'm in my second trimester and we can't move our family to a town we have no connection to. We're moving up north later once covid 19 pisses off, it's closer to BM and SD, but not too close. We're moving to be nearer to husbands family.
I'm hoping husband goes for full custody. What BM is doing isn't right.
Do not draft any more
Do not draft any more agreements, get your husband to get a solicitor to do it. If you keep attempting to do stuff yourselves you will eventually have BM saying you are harassing her even if that isn’t the case.
Do this by the book 100%.
Also, you shouldn’t be considering getting full custody of the little girl bless BM is abusing her own daughter?
Get proper paid for legal advice.
Custody
One if my old posts explains a lot about what BM is doing wrong. Mainly leaving SD5 alone while she goes off to work. She leaves her bed sheets smelling of urine, because she doesn't wash the duvet after SD has had an accident. SD doesn't look good, and we pointed out that after exercise she gets very worn out and starts coughing, BM said there's nothing to worry about when I'd say that's cause enough to take her to the doctor. BM didn't even bother.
There's a lot that BM isn't doing for SD and it's really upsetting.
And we were told as long as the agreement was signed off on by a solicitor then it's okay. So I'll stick with the legal advice we were given.
Other than that it looks like court is going ahead.
I’m sorry I couldn’t find
I’m sorry I couldn’t find find the bit about SD being left alone at the age of 5 whilst BM goes to work.
If this really is the case you ought to phone the police when you suspect she is being left alone and phone social services
Also, when SD is in your partners care he is allowed to take her to see a dr.
Social services
We already contacted them. They did nothing. They saw nothing wrong. They gave BM a slap on the wrist and said don't do it again.
Nope, DH should not wait. He
Nope, DH should not wait. He should kick BM in the ass with the full force of any and all tools he has each and every time she fails to provide access to his kid per the CO.
Idiots like this BM understand pain and pain is what they should live until they either keel over dead or extricate their heads from their own asses.
I take it as my personal quest to apply a shoe horn to their sphyncter and rip their head out of their own ass. They have to fight to keep it there and if they are so commited to fostering their rampant case of Cranio-Rectitis they have to love it enough to enjoy the pain that they are chosing.
This was how we dealt with the SpermClan for the years we lived under the CO. The more pain we applied the longer they stayed in the hole under the slime covered rock at the bottom of their shallow and polluted gene pool... My kind hearted DW would back off convinced they had learned their lesson. As soon as she removed the pain and pressure, they went straight back to their toxic bullshit. So.... we brought the pain harder and more intensley the next time.
They never gave up their toxic crap but they did get very twitchy and spent a lot of time flinching in expectation of the pain they knew was coming even though their idiot manipulative behavior was their considered and repeated choice.
My SS is a wonderful man of character. Though he, his mom and I are the three musketeers the three of us remain poised to keep the SpermClan firmly in their place. The place of distrust, disdain and distance that they earned with their toxic manipulative crap for decades and continue to earn with their attempts to pressure and guilt SS into sending money for the support of his three younger Spermidiot spawned half sibs and SpermGrandHag's seemingly undying drive to be a control freak.
They still lose every time they pull any bullshit.