Yes, DH told SS. We even had him watch Welcome Back, Pluto. None of it really made any difference, honestly.

I'm so sorry you are going through this.  I am in a similiar situation, although BM and SS have refused access to BF until he "dumps that skank" (In case you did not know that's me!!!!). 

BM only agreed to a court ordered therapist IF she picked him.  One session with her/SS and therapist refused therapy with BF as he said he didn’t have the moral compass to continue therapy with an abuser who chooses transients in his life over his DS. 

BF's lawyer just requested to the judge that the court ordered therapist be removed from the case and requested a new PAS/Reunification therapist that he has used with other clients.  BF's mom found the therapists by googling "Parental Alienation therapists" and "Reunification therapists" in our area and found this one team, and come to find out his laywer knew them and had worked with them with other clients in the past.  We are waiting for the judge to make the change (The judge is really good, I think it will be done).   Could maybe your attorney do that?  

Also, we have been reading alot of alientation pages on facebook, and most of them advise to tell kids the truth and show evidence as well (For example of BM says your DH is a deadbeat and doesn't pay CS show them your proof of it).  BUT do it in a nice way, like "your mom is mistaken, I pay my CS, here is the proof"  It might help to join some of them, most of them are private groups and not open to the public.  

Do you and DH go to therapy by yourselves (without kids)?  BF and I go together (Virtual) and it really makes a difference.  Its very stressful to deal with this and we feel better when we have our sessions.

I still have a lot to learn and I feel fortunate to have found this site.  I don't have any good anwers for you since SS refuses to see BF until I hit the bricks, but he has just started reaching out to him after BM was served the request to remove the therapist from the case (I didn't realize that was the reason it until Tog pointed it out!!).  Best to you,

Christy

(If you haven't already) and let him know what happened.  Start googling the therapists and ask for the judge to order the therapy.  In regards to what you have heard, I have read in books/Facebook Pages that it doesn't work when you stay silent, as the kids start to believe the lies.  So sorry!!!! Hang in there!!!!

H and I went through being vilified by BM and the SKs ate it all up. BM is the one who cheated on H. I didn't even know H until three years later. BM convinced the brats that I'm a homewrecker and that H was abusive to BM and on drugs. Kids believed every word and BM continued her crap for about two decades. I was in LE and even had to defend myself in investigations. H was a yellow belly and kept up the taking the high road bullshit. To this day there is tension from SS to H and SD seems to still believe that I ruined her parents' marriage by seducing H. Taking the high road so to speak doesn't work. I'm very close to blowing my stack and letting the cat out of the bag and telling the family secret because I'm tired of the abuse after 25 years. I really don't care anymore. A lot of the bullshit H and I endured could have stopped if H simply defended us. By chickening out and "taking the high road" the lies were believed for so long that I really don't think there's any ability to come back from this. The beliefs festered for so long that I really think that even with concrete evidence the kids will not accept it. H let it all happen for way too long.

You shouldn't just spill all the dirty details to kids unprompted. However, defending yourself or correcting lies is okay. Similar to the old saying about not starting a fight, but being okay to end one. As mentioned above, you can tell the kids the truth without disparaging their other parent. "Here are my receipts that I pay child support" is fine. "Your mother spends my CS on herself so that's why you never see it" is not.

DH told OSD when she was 13 and putting up a huge stink about why HE left her mom and how mean he was, and how sad it was for HER.  Oh, he laid it allllll out.  He addressed BM's behavior around then too, but didn't go into detail.  I'm sure YSD heard it all too - there's no way she couldn't have with her room right next door.

OSD was gone from our home in less than a year. Nothing DH did or said made one bit of difference to her and BM believed a 13/14 year old's version of events over an adults. We also know who is actually running BM's home and it's not BM. 

DH is more reconciled to the PAS now but hates it and every so often, every couple months kind of loses it and says he's going to fix it. I just listen and give him support. Because BM and OSD have never ever WANTED to fix it. No talking, no counseling, no communication  -  BM gave OSD all the power. Of course, now college applications will be happening and BM is coming to DH with financial requests. He's like, Yeah no. OSD either meets with him to discuss college or she gets not a dime. He's not good enough to talk with but he's good enough to spend thousands of dollars on her? Nope, doesn't work like that.

YSD is experiencing some PAS as well, and a not insignificant slice of it is coming from OSD. So that's fun.  We expect her, once schools are in person again, to go to the school near BM which means she would likely only be here every other weekend and the requisite holidays. DH is reconciled to this too.

I'd say it's up you your DH to decide how to handle it. I have zero say in anything and none of my suggestions are/were taken and used. So not my issue - other than a relief oftentimes to not have to deal with any of it.  I support DH and listen to him and that is my role.

It is never too early nor too late to provide PAS manipulated kids with the facts regarding the toxic manipulative POS parent.

We did and as you you and DH are doing we did it while working with SS to build understanding that it was okay for him to love and care about them even if they were dishonest and manipulative.

I our case it turned out pretty well.  SS learned to recognize when they were manipulating and to protect himself in real time and as an adult m.  These people never stop their crap and will victimize their kids all through adulthood if the kid is not aware and knowledgeable of the facts.

Depending on the age. You can show them thr divorce papers. The CS checks, medical checks ect.  But remember bad personality do transfer to the kids 

I think that there can be a fine line of what and when things need to be discussed with kids.

I think it's important to give them FACTS.  Try to not accuse the other parent of outright lying or assigning a motivation .. but when the kids spout off with "it's your fault and SM's fault we are not getting to do X".  A full on bath in the water of truth  may be needed.

"That is not correct.  I don't know how she could have forgotten but she has known since X date that it would be my visitation time that week and I had already made plans for us to do X as a family.  And.. you boys know that I would never ask you to lie or hide things that were important from your mother, but you may not realize it but when you give her a full on report of everything that happens or is said in my home.. she ends up misinterpreting and turning things around and makes things difficult.  It's like one of those games where one person whispers a phrase to the next until it gets to the end of the line and the phrase has been completely changed around.  When you tell her what you "think" you heard or did.. she is often getting a different story in her own mind.  We deserve to be able to live our lives in this home without fear that some outside person is passing judgement on every little thing.  I don't expect to hear the nitty gritty detail of what happens when your with your mom do I?"

I think as teens, it's ok to be a bit more honest.. stating facts and nothing but facts so to speak.  They are old enough to have some understanding of the way that the custody order works.. and that they are being supported by both parents financially etc..

It is tough though.. it's a lot more difficult for a kid to align against the CP... they rely on the CP for so much direct access to what they want.

I think the reason people say "don't tell them" is that they are operating on normal people guidelines, not high conflict guidelines. High Conflict people WILL put them in the middle and tell them bad things, so if the other parent says and does nothing, the kids believe the HC parent.

We had a lot of situations where BM said, "SS wants this or that .." and SS said he knew nothing about it. Of course, he lies too, and would tell us bad things about BM, so we never knew where the truth was, because sometimes we did catch him saying bad things about us.

DH got scolded a few times by attorneys for things he said. Your BM will undoubtedly try to twist this all around. He would do the kids a favor by taking their phones, so they don't have to stand up to BM (which is really hard to do for a kid).