At what age can a child say they don't want to visit the non-custodial parent?
FDH has 2 sons and gets them EOW. He's always paid his CS and has always been very involved in their lives (as much as BM will allow). The youngest son has no problem coming over EOW and is happy when he's with us. The oldest (13) wants nothing to do with his dad. FDH is in the process of going for full custody and BM is not happy about that. BM has made some very poor choices in her personal life this past year which is affecting the kids a lot. BM is brainwashing the oldest into thinking that FDH is a bad guy and a dead beat dad. BM has been known to withold the boys to get what she wants and FDH has had enough of those games and wants to do everything through the courts now. This made BM very angry and we have not had the oldest son since all of this began (a couple of months ago). It's breaking my FDH heart. Everytime he goes to pick up the kids, the youngest runs to the car and is more than happy to be with us. The oldest will be at the door and when FDH asks why he doesn't want to come, BM just barges through the door and says "he said he doesn't want to come over, now leave". You can tell that she's putting the oldest inbetween a rock and a hard place, but now it seems that he truly doesn't want to come (before he seemed like he wanted to but didn't want to disappoint his mom). What can FDH do about this? His court date is at the end of the month, but how long can a 13 year old call the shots of visitation? I feel so bad for FDH because he truly loves those boys with all his heart and he's starting to get bitter feelings towards the oldest because he wants nothing to do with FDH. I have to remind him that it's not the sons fault, it's BM's! Any advice would be appreciated 
If the visitation is in a CO
If the visitation is in a CO in writing - I wouldn't think there would be anyway the oldest and BM could call the shots - I know there was a issue with one of DH's buddies visitation and they called the sheriff and he read the CO and pretty much said DH's friend had the right to his child even though BM said no - so he got his daughter for the weekend end of story.
If he has court ordered
If he has court ordered visitaiton and the kid is not going, he can (and should) take BM to court. Until the court changes the order, the kid doesn't have a choice. He's getting a choice because BM is allowing it, and DH isn't standing up to her.
::He's getting a choice
::He's getting a choice because BM is allowing it, and DH isn't standing up to her.::
I just have a question... What do you mean by "standing up to her." ? People say all of the time- Stand up to her. How does one do that without starting WW3?
When he allows her to dictate
When he allows her to dictate whether or not he spends time with his son without doing anything about it, he's not standing up to her.
I'm not necessarily saying he needs to engage in an all-out WW3 battle at that moment in front of the kids, but he can easily go back to his car, call the police, and file a report. Then take her to court on a motion to show cause for violating the agreement.
While I don't condone starting these battles in front of the kids, I also don't ever suggest just doing what BM wants because you don't want to fight with her. If he wants to spend time with his kid, and it's breaking his heart to not see his son, then he needs to stand up to BM and enforce the CO.
This is very true! I will
This is very true! I will talk to FDH to see exactly what his CO states. Maybe we can go to the police department (by ourselves) and have them look at it and give us advice on what we can do. Thanks for your input
ok, thanks, our issue is that
ok, thanks,
our issue is that BM treats SD13 like an adult and discusses all of these adult issuew with her. SD has a very inflated sense of status
Our BM does the same thing
Our BM does the same thing with SS13. It's like role reversal with those 2. BM is the child and SS13 is the adult. He's the one that's taking care of his siblings while BM is out partying. It's really sad because every kid deserves to have a childhood. He's always been SO concerned with BM and how things will affect BM. He's like her husband (in a non-perverted way)
At what age can a child say
At what age can a child say they don't want to visit the non-custodial parent? 18.
I completely agree with you!
I completely agree with you! It's so sad (and embarrasing) to watch FDH basically run around "kissing" their little behinds to make them WANT to come over. The kids are spoiled and it's only getting worse with this whole custody battle. He wants to make it so they like coming over and is going WAY above and beyond what is necessary to accomplish that. It's rediculous watching the kid call the shots and BM is backing him up 150% (even though she's the one that started witholding him in the first place).
My FDH's excuse for not
My FDH's excuse for not setting limits with his daughter is "she won't want to visit anymore". Well, she is 12 years old and doesn't get to make adult decisions. I don't know why it is so hard for him to understand this concept.
"I love you. I am your
"I love you. I am your dad/mom. I want to see you and spend time with you. I will keep fighting for visitation because you are worth it to me!"
I love this!!! I'm going to show it to FDH after work today
We are also going to go to the police station to see what can be done, just so when court comes around they won't question FDH trying to get the oldest for visitation.
It's funny because in mediation BM agree'd to 6PM for FDH to pick up the boys. Well, last weekend we went to pick them up at 6 and there's, of course, no answer at the door. FDH then called BM and she says that their at the swimming pool! Um... really?!?! So now we have to hunt them down just so FDH can take the youngest for his weekend. I asked the youngest if he had fun swimming and he said that he couldn't go. I asked why not and he said because he didn't have swim shorts!!! So, he was there with his mom, brother and BM and her other child and God knows who else and they were ALL swimming but the youngest one. Lately BM has been treating the youngest poorly because I think she's mad at him for him wanting to come over. Poor kiddo! We have swim shorts for him at our place though and took him swimming when he was with us
They are in the process of
They are in the process of re"negotiating" the court order, but that isn't until the end of this month. Also, he doesn't have a police clause (or whatever it's called, I'm sort of new to all this from a courts perspective) so he doesn't call the police. I also don't know if he would call the police because then the kid would really hate him for calling the cops on his mom. I just know that BM would feed the kid a bunch of BS about how FDH is trying to put her in jail or something. She really is dramatic like that and lies about everything to make herself look like a victim. It's really sad to see this happening though because the oldest used to love coming over and now he seems like he wants nothing to do with FDH. I understand at that age that he wants to hang out with friends etc, but it's only EOW!
Yes, he was to have them for
Yes, he was to have them for all holidays and a month during summer vacation (because she was living far away - a whole 9 months without her drama - sigh). Now that she's moved back ("yay") they just went back to the EOW because that's what they did before she moved away (for the past 10 years).
There doesn't have to be a
There doesn't have to be a "police clause" all he has to do is call the cops and say that his ex is in contempt and he would like to make sure he is reading the CO correctly they will read it and then force the little guy to go to y'all house. It is not really him trying to put her in jail - it is her making sure the CO is correct.
And who cares if the kid had to be actually removed and the police did show up (they didn't have to in our friends case) then he would state what I just said, and simply police enforcing it will show the kid when he is older in no way was the dad trying to do anything wrong except see his son.
We have a dramatic BM but I would call in a heartbeat and we have had to get lawyers involved in her trying to change the CO on her own.
In our state, Florida, The
In our state, Florida, The police will not enforce a CO. DH filed contempt everytime Crazo withheld. The judge told her to have them available, and ready to go no matter what. That was 2yrs ago. She is now telling ss16 that he doesn't have to go to see his dad if he doesn't want to. SS16 wants to see his dad, so far it is a non issue other than her ranting about it.
These people are so selfish they cannot see the harm they are doing to their own children. And the sad thing is they just don't care.
Unfortunately not It was
Unfortunately not
It was never really an issue before but since she's moved back and got divorced, it's been her ultimate goal (for whatever reason, to punish FDH for not paying MORE in CS - which according to the tables he's already over paying) to keep the boys away from FDH. At least the youngest still has some common sense. So, now all hell has broken loose!!! It's literally been an all out war (still not as bad as some stories I read on here, but still bad) since FDH wanted to have the CO revised.
That's basically what we're
That's basically what we're doing. Just letting BM dig her own grave and documenting everything! Court is in 2 weeks, so something will hopefully be done then!
Lol!!! We're definately going
Lol!!! We're definately going after work today to talk with them! I just want to keep the kids out of it. There's somethings that kids will remember their whole lives and they don't need to go through seeing the police at their door because their dad called the cops on their mom (that's how they'll see it anyways). The cops are there enough because of her "fiance" and one of her "friends" that they were looking for for MURDER :jawdrop: Like, where does she find these people?!?!
Looking at the situation
Looking at the situation solely based at what you wrote, it sounds like the oldest boy is having loyalty issues and being PASed by his mother.
To answer your question, no child can call the shots on a CO. Anyone (including a child) can file a motion for custody modification, and our lawyer told us of a case where a girl as young as 9 got the CO modified. Due process must still be followed though. No child (or adult for that matter) can withold visitation outright.
Now unfortunately, in my area, the police cannot enforce a CO because CO's are considred a civil matter, not a criminal one. Your area might be different so it doesn't hurt to ask. The best advice for your husband is to follow through on his motion. Have your husband document everything this BM has done to prove that she has no interest in co-parenting this child. Again, in my experience, judges really don't like it when one parent "takes the law into their hands". It also helps your husband's case that one child wants to come but the other doesn't. Yeah sure, maybe the 13-year-old wants to spend time with his friends, but friends don't trump family.
Yeah, definitely loyalty
Yeah, definitely loyalty issues. The kid is a MAJOR "mommas boy". Always has been! FDH has been documenting everything including only getting one child EVERYTIME he goes to pick up both of them. I just hope that this will all come out in the wash come their court date. It's funny though, because all of this started with BM demanding more CS. FDH said that he will pay whatever the courts tell him to based on his income (he's good like that). Well, we found out last month that he's over paying by $100/month!!! lol!!! So, BM hasn't even heard about this yet and it will be brought up at court this month! I wish I would be there to see the look on her face when she realizes she's getting less money! He's kept overpaying though, until it's changed legally through the courts. He is a follow the rules type of guy sometimes to a flaw.
We have an expression here:
We have an expression here: "I feel like my slippers"
Basically it's a way of saying "I feel lazy and I don't want to go out". So it's quite possible that your SS13 is just being lazy and going to see his Dad EOW feels like too much effort. The reason I suggest this is because SS admitted to me that he often feels that way. If given the choice he wouldn't want to go to his Dad's either, not because he doesn't want to see his Dad, but because it requires some "effort". The same is true when he his at his Dad's. He won't want to leave because he's parked his butt on a couch somewhere and doesn't want to get up. So while there are signs of PAS going on, I wouldn't rule out sheer laziness on the kids part.
That's a good point! We don't
That's a good point! We don't let the kids sleep in past 10AM so that could be it too. We have rules at our house. BM doesn't. But, the boy used to come over dressed like a BUM!!!! He'd wear the grosest sweats with a clashing t-shirt that had holes in them. Their mom does have decent clothes for them, but he choses to dress like this and BM doesn't stop him. We bought him nice clothes to wear when he's over because I refused to go out in public with him dressed like that (I didn't voice this infront of the skids, just FDH). I didn't want people thinking that I would allow my kid to dress like that (even though he's not "mine"). He does play xbox in his room ALL day (according to the younger son) and his room is in a dark and dingy basement. That's great parenting!!! Keep the kid alive so that you can get what you need (babysitter) out of him! BM has even said (this was years ago when CPS was investigating BM) that she "couldn't afford to let FDH take the boys"!!! :jawdrop: He should have taken them right then and there, but we weren't in a position where we could either (we had JUST moved to another city due to new jobs).
All I know is that there is a
All I know is that there is a new CO getting put into place because the last CO was based on BM living far away (she just moved back last year). There were no real issues with all of this until she got her new BF and she seems to want to make him their "dad" (she even tells them to call him that and they are 11 & 13). He's in jail now (for the second time in 6 months) which is ONE of the many reasons that FDH is going for full custody. I guess he'll just have to wait until the end of the month to deal with it. He tried speaking with a mediator but he couldn't get an appointment until AFTER the court date. This system just seems soooo messed up (but then again, look at all the shit they have to deal with)!
He is getting very prepared
He is getting very prepared for court! He has so much evidence against BM and this is just another thing for him to add to the list. I will tell him to make sure that he gets everything down in the CO and nothing left open ended. BM thinks she's bullet proof and that she can do no wrong. She drives around without a drivers license (with the kids) and has never been caught. She scams welfare and has never been caught. She's lied under oath, made false alligations and even stole someone's identity and has never been reprimended for anything! It's crazy! FDH just wants what's best for his sons. BM uses the oldest to babysit her younger child (no relation to FDH, thank GOD) so she can go out and party! It's really pathetic. She's breaking up their relationship so she has a full time sitter!
He does!! And JUST the
He does!! And JUST the facts!!! I work in law enforcement myself (can't really say much more than that) so I know exactly what the judge will be looking for
And she's provided us with MORE than enough evidence for his case. We have facebook posts, past cases with CPS, and much more. No emotions what-so-ever 
DH's second wife lost total
DH's second wife lost total custody of her 13 year old son for pulling crap like this. This is a woman with a good job, stable home, church going, non smoker, non drinker, etc. - (not that you have to be all of those things) but there were no abuse issues except for the PAS. She was about as "respectable" as one could be - except for being a total bitch with her ex.
And as I always like to add as a footnote - when her ex got divorced again (from the woman he left her for) she promptly left DH and remarried him. They are all crazies who deserve each other. Never trust that an ex is over a past spouse.
What is PAS? I've wondered
:? What is PAS? I've wondered this for awhile and can't figure it out!
I'm sure BM is over FDH and I KNOW that FDH is over her (they split 10 years ago), so that's not an issue. I do sometimes wonder about BM though and some of her motives with FDH, but I know that FDH would never go there again, so she's welcome to try all she wants
That's EXACTLY what BM is
:jawdrop: That's EXACTLY what BM is doing!!!!!!!! The mediator asked if she can talk to the boys without the parents there as they are trained to get to the root of the problem and can usually tell when a parent is "brainwashing" a child against the other parent. FDH said he had no problem with this and would love for him (13 y/o son) to talk to someone. Now, they need to get BM's consent to talk to him and they said that they see a red flag when a parent denies this request (I don't know if BM allowed it or not, she was in the process of getting a lawyer).
Parental Alienation
Parental Alienation Syndrome
It's very difficult for the non-custodial parent to combat.
18. Unless BM takes DH back
18.
Unless BM takes DH back to court and gets the CO modified and even then would have to show a significant change in circumstances that warrant the change. Just isn't going to listen to "junior doesn't wanna go."
I agree with the above post.
I agree with the above post. As a SM whose husband tried unsuccessfully for 3+ years for custody against a very indulgent PAS-ing BM, simply put - it wasn't BAD enough to remove the kids in our case. Inother words the PAS was bad enough, but the BM wasn't...(Ie bordering on child welfare involvement, but not quite there - kids were healthy and had friends and BM managed to (in a psychologists words) - manage "OK" when not depressed....)
IMO the focus should be on resolution back to the CO....and then after repeated attempts to do so (as in court attempts) then you ask for custody...
BM is a piece of "work".
BM is a piece of "work". She's had 2 kids removed permanently from her care (before FDH bred with her), she's had 10 claims with child welfare where a case worker deemed her unfit (mentally) but let her keep the kids for some reason. Now she's dating a guy that has a history of committing huge crimes and both kids are failing school. This has all happened in the last year and FDH can provide them with a stable home. She's moved 5 times in the past year, divorced her husband and is now "engaged" to a criminal. I don't see what judge would allow her to keep the kids. I just worry that FDH will deem her so unfit that they will remove her daughter out of her care and she will go into the system. It's sad.
Yet shes fit enough for the
Yet shes fit enough for the "experts" (not saying they- child welfare - are) to leave the kids with her - KWIM....that just may be how a judge sees it.
I know exactly what you
I know exactly what you mean!!! But, she's done a lot of other stuff that I can't type on here (due to security - never know if BM is on this site too - though I don't see it happening). I hope the judge will rule in FDH favor. I was initially worried about getting the skids full time, but FDH is proving that he is going to contribute and he's been a huge help lately (and I know it's not for show as he's been doing things without me even asking!!!). I really care about these boys future and just want to make them a good contribution to society instead of them milking the system for all it's worth (like their mom does).
My lawyer told me that it is
My lawyer told me that it is my responsibility to send my BD to her dad's for visitation. If she ever decides she doesn't want to go, I will have to go back to court for a custody modification, otherwise I am the one in trouble for keeping her with me. Aint that a load of crap!
However, if I ever feel that my BD is in danger by going to her dads's, I will keep her with me and if her dad wants to call the cops and make a report for violating court ordered visitation, I suppose I will simply be in contempt.
So FDH should just give up
So FDH should just give up and count his loses because boys are protective of their mom?