Doing favors for BM?
So we've been dealing with constant high conflict for about 6 years now. BM didn't have a job and barely went to school so had lots of time to think about what she could annoy DH with. Every. Day. Not as bad anymore since maintenance is up soon and she needs to finish school. So lately she's been sending lots of texts basically questioning DH's parenting skills/love for his child yada yada... DH almost always ignores her, which pisses her off even more. 
Within MINUTES of sending these texts, she sends an email about upcoming events, and says she needs help getting SS11 to school next Wednesday. And how does DH respond? He says "Sure, I can help out." WTF?!?! I'm sorry, but I get that he wants to help out SS, but she also noted he should let her know asap to find another option otherwise. So I haven't said anything, but I don't even know what to say. She berates you almost daily and constantly calls you a shitty dad, and in the same breath asks for a favor. And you say yes. Really????
How do I approach this?
Let him know that if he wants
Let him know that if he wants the harassment to stop, he needs boundaries with her.
She's got him confused about helping her because it's something about SS. He needs to understand that if it's on her time, he needs to let her figure it out. Only when he makes this separation in his head (yes, even if SS is the subject of the favor), will he get it. She is using SS as a manipulation tool, because she knows he'll help her if it's got to do with SS.
You know when people can always turn to the other parent to do a favor for them? When they are married/in a relationship. This "can you help me" is not part of parenting, it's about the relationship between the adults. Otherwise it wouldn't be "can you help me" right? But after divorce, people get confused (particularly passive men), because a child is mentioned and so that's "parenting." But it's not.
Once the relationship between parents has ended, the parents turn to others in their life to do them a favor, even when it's got to do with the child. For example, I'm sure your DH turns to you to help him if he needs someone to pick up SS. So the fact that BM turns to him is the problem. And no feeling sorry for her if she doesn't have anyone; it's likely that she's so awful that no one wants to be in her life, and that is not DH's fault. Perhaps losing her, er, your husband will teach her to play nice with others. Until then, he is filling a spousal role for her, and also allowing her to harass/insult him. So did he sign up for a miserable marriage for life to her, or what? Why is he choosing to let her treat him this way?
I think a great deal of conflict in marriages with issues like this is because it becomes hard for an SM to respect her man when he lets another woman (one he's not in any sort of relationship with) disrespect him. I honestly think it lowers their value in our eyes.
'I think a great deal of
'I think a great deal of conflict in marriages with issues like this is because it becomes hard for an SM to respect her man when he lets another woman (one he's not in any sort of relationship with) disrespect him. I honestly think it lowers their value in our eyes.'
I couldn't agree more, Cadence
And then I think the next
And then I think the next thing that happens is the nice normal SM starts to act like the nutty BM, because she's seen that's what gets results. I think it's all a subconscious process, but it's one that I know that I went through.
So if a DH wants to be with a woman who treats him well after procreating with a hosebeast, he can't accommodate and pacify the hosebeast, or he'll unknowingly create another one in his current relationship!
This all came to be me when I noticed myself acting like a lunatic, and not understanding why. It's because I'd lost respect, and I had to act like a crazy person to get my needs met.
I could never really put my
I could never really put my disgust for him (when he lets her treat him like that) into words. So thank you! Now it makes more sense, that when I see him allowing her to disrespect him time and time again, my value of him is lowered. Who doesn't want a man with a backbone?
And it's true, doing "favors" implies give and take in a caring relationship. She is simply taking advantage of his passiveness and willing to do what he needs for his son. Hopefully when this comes up I can just remain calm and explain why I think he should not be doing things like that for her.
Thank you Cadence!
Yes, do be careful if you
Yes, do be careful if you ever try to explain this to your DH, though.
It will really really fundamentally hurt him if you say anything about losing respect or attraction for him. He wants to be your hero, and it will hurt him to hear otherwise. So really wordsmith it before you say anything to him (if you plan to do that.)
"And it's true, doing "favors" implies give and take in a caring relationship. She is simply taking advantage of his passiveness and willing to do what he needs for his son."
With this one, it might be best to start off with a "Hey, when you can't get SS from school, you ask me to help out, right?" He'll say yes. Ask him why. Why out of everyone does he ask you? You want to direct him toward the "I ask you favors because you're the one in a relationship with me" topic. Get him to clarify why he asks you and not BM. And then "So, you ask me to do these tasks for you, because even though SS is a part of the task, it's a favor FOR YOU, so it's appropriate to ask me, the one with whom you are in a relationship?" He'll say yes. So that's when you point out that BM turns to him in the same capacity, but his relationship with her has been over for many years.
He'll get defensive then, because he'll want to tell you he does these favors for SS. Understand that. That's how he explains to to himself, so he's being truthful. He believes this is part of being a good parent to SS. Don't argue that, be sympathetic about this piece.
And maybe you'll need to take a break and come back to the conversation. But your next step is to talk about BM's behavior - harassing, insulting, etc. And the only way in everyday life to get someone to stop treating you that way is to stop tolerating it and put up a boundary. Say if your coworker were bullying you. The normal solution is to distance yourself from that person and interact only when necessary right? So, what if that coworker asks you for a favor? What are the risks of doing that favor for that coworker? ... Opening the door for the harassment to start again. They're not going to treat you nicely, because they have a screw loose. They'll see you as weak and as more of a target because you've handed them permission to mistreat you and you'll still be nice.
Tell him this is what is happening with BM. And that in the spirit of favors for "SS", those favors have really been about BM. And that she is keeping the door open to harassing him by maintaining a bond in this way. And isn't part of being an independent woman/mother to handle your own problems? She'd like the world to cater to her, and she's living the dream: taking out her crap on her ex and also getting him to do nice things for her.
Let him know you'd like this situation resolved and ask him how he'd like to handle it. Then let some time go by, do not bring it up, and wait for him to bring it up again. This part will be hard. But if you fail at this piece, you'll be put in the middle and he'll start wondering if you're perhaps the real source of his stress and not BM.
Express what you want and let him figure out how to handle it.
Normally I'd also stay away from explanations, but he clearly doesn't see the dynamics here and thinks doing favors for BM is part of being a good dad. He's also an enabling person by nature. I can tell you that without knowing him, because when a BM is a psycho control freak, the only men who stay in relationships with that type of woman are low-self esteem men who are enablers. Other men would flee for the hills. So his very nature is to accommodate people who mistreat him. He doesn't know this about himself, so in this situation, it's best to walk him through it. Don't present it like you are telling him the way it has to be, tell him you are explaining it so he can understand how you view all of this.
"BM is perfectly capable of
"BM is perfectly capable of handling it herself. I was a single mom for quite some time and I did it. I never asked anyone for help. THAT'S parenting, not doing whatever the other parent wants you to do because 'it's your child.'"
Yes, it's about the role of the parent.
When in a relationship with the other parent, it's "Oh, I can't get him from school. Can you get him?" That's a normal thing. But after that relationship ends, the co-parents want to call that part of parenting. But it isn't.
If it were part of co-parenting, then, why, when a DH gets remarried, is he liable to ask the SM to pick up SS instead of asking BM? Because SM is the one he's in a relationship with, and the favor is FOR HIM.
So when the BM is being a cuntzilla in all other regards except when she needs a favor, and turns to DH, it's not okay.
I'm one of those particularly evil childless SMs, so I have also gotten hit with the "you're not a parent, you don't understand" and "you're just insecure" accusations. Luckily, those were a long time ago. My SO has made a firm mental shift from automatically trusting BM's opinions to automatically trusting my opinions, even when it's about his kids. Life is good
Please drive straight here
Please drive straight here and line out all of this for my FDH.
You rock!!
I completely agree- I would
I completely agree- I would do anything for my BS also. But when we went to a therapist and this was brought up, he said not to do those types of things for her as long as the child is not endangered. So when she texts and says "oh I forgot to pick SS up from school... can you go grab him quick?" The response should be no, because he kept enabling her to take advantage of him and making her look like the best mom in the world to the kids. Because in his eyes, she never forgot to pick him up... Dad was supposed to.
When BMs are NORMAL, then I
When BMs are NORMAL, then I would say this "her" time, "his time" is bullshit, a person is a parent 100% of the time so no big deal if kid needs a ride on "her" day.
High conflict bitches, like a lot of us deal with, are completely different and sometimes have to be treated as such. Which means, no favors. I mean, if he is such a shitty dad, why would she even ask, right?
We have always lived far enough from BM that these kinds of favors were not an option, so I don't know the best way to approach it. He is going to say he's doing it for his kid and that's a good argument.
Somehow, he has to get past the fact that he's doing it for his son and look at what is really going on with BM's treatment of him and her using him to her benefit. The problem is, he knows that if he says no, she will let him know that her point has been proven, he's a shitty dad. And I'm sure he really is doing it for his kid, not for BM.
These men cannot win with these types of women. You are going to have to come to terms with it, somehow.
"When BMs are NORMAL, then I
"When BMs are NORMAL, then I would say this "her" time, "his time" is bullshit, a person is a parent 100% of the time so no big deal if kid needs a ride on "her" day.
I totally agree. If the two parents are normal mature people, then the occasional favor is fine. It's when you get into situations like this one that the favors need to stop. Because if they don't, you allow a way to be manipulated and to create more conflict, and that are the things that the passive DH is trying to reduce by being nice. He's using nice as a currency to make the chaos stop, not understanding that it allows it to continue.
I will say that our BM has been living with solid boundaries for a year and half to two years now, and now she's downright cordial in her communications. It's weird and I don't fully trust it. Perhaps she has learned that being a raging c*nt no longer works as way to get what she wants, or perhaps she has been placed on effective medications. Whatever it is, if this lasts, it may be okay to treat her as if she were a "normal" BM and do her a favor every now and then. But she's also, seemingly, become more self-reliant in the meantime, so the number of requests for favors is also vastly reduced.
And I think a "normal" BM wouldn't be asking for many favors anyway, since normalcy means they won't be clinging on, will perhaps have other friends and family in their life to turn to, and have a degree of healthy pride.
It's these crazy bitches that always act helpless and need the SM's DH to ride in and save the day, while also treating said SM's DH like dirt on the bottom of her shoe when she doesn't need a favor from him. The "normal" ones don't act this way, so it's not an issue with them.
It's all context specific, and I think it's very dangerous to do favors for the high-conflict ex, even if the subject matter of the favor is a shared child.
Since she gave quite a bit of
Since she gave quite a bit of notice and actually asked, and it was taking his child to school, I don't see a problem with this.
I would have a problem with "I need you to be here in 20 minutes to take your son to school". I would also have a problem with "could you please come help with the stopped up toilet" or other similar tasks.
When I was a very newly divorced/not dating single mom, my ex would occasionally drop by to take care of something for me, but I never asked him to. I think the kids would mention something that needed doing to him and he felt some responsibility to deal with easily fixed things since I had moved 6 hours away from my family and support systems for his job.