SS has a girlfriend and BM is supposedly losing her mind

A preview of a future toxic MIL:

One SS (approaching 17) has his first girlfriend. We didn't see him the last weekend because it was homecoming, so he was off at events with said girlfriend. Other SS is anti-social, so he came to our home and was lamenting to DH about how his brother was staying out "late at night" with this girlfriend whom anti-social SS called a wh***. DH told him not to use that word and SS replied, "well, mom thinks she is. She's upset that [brother] is out all the time with her!" Mind you, SS with the girlfriend has been enmeshed with BM since the divorce (likely before the divorce). He was the one she confided in about how exH#2 (aka former stepdad) "wasn't the man she thought he was" and also about how she had to dump her previous boyfriend because he "had an alcohol problem", so I'm sure BM is freaking out at losing her precious pet. This SS has friends who are mostly okay, so I doubt this girl is truly a wh*** as BM has dubbed her. Also, if BM doesn't want him staying out to all hours with girlfriend, then maybe she should tell him he can't...that said, I think BM is often out with her current boyfriend, so how does she know where SS is or when he comes home.

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The "talk"

Has your DH had "the talk" with SS?

He has talked to him about

He has talked to him about the importance of being respectful of girls / women and not taking advantage of them. He has also told him that he's not interested in being a grandfather at this time, but I'm not sure how much detail he's gotten into around sex.

More detail

As the BM and SM of 3 boys, now men, I'd advise a very specific conversation. I'm not up to detailing our experiences but if I had it to do over. I'd make DH go into specific detail.

Another thing: I found teenage girls to be very forward. Perhaps they were looking for relationships but in any case, seemed much more mature.

100% and about using “protection”

Not an easy conversation BUT is important. Don't assume it won't happen. It does.

I have also thought about

I have also thought about whether DH should buy condoms to give to the kid, with the requirement that they are used every, single, time. We have toddler children, so no interest in grandbabies right now.

The more explicit the better

Yes to condoms and how to use, where to get them, what they cost, ie, the more explicit the better. You won't be sorry.

As someone who has worked in

As someone who has worked in education for years, teen girls are much more mature than teen boys...and maybe even trying to grow up a bit too fast in many cases. I remember always being horrified at how grown up middle school girls were looking at dressing.

And yes, I'm going to put a bug in DH's ear about sharing more specifics on things like consent, protection, being respectful, etc.

AND

Make sure he understands that contraception is the responsibility of BOTH participants. If both partners assume their contraception, the risks of an unwanted pregnancy are considerably reduced.

Maybe explain child support to him :)

Just wait and watch....

You will soon be hearing of some of his friends becoming teen fathers. That will be a good opportunity to discuss the realm of possible impacts on a young mans's life: difficult decisions, 18 years of child support, impact on education, job opportunities, possible youthful.marriage and it's chance of success, etc.

Right? And do not assume she’s

"Taking care of it " ie birth control. 3 of my sons friends are now unexpectedly expecting. Two in "serious" relationships for over 2 years. They are all 19-20 years old.

Wrap it before you tap it, and, no glove no love!

The key message (wording is of course variable by dad) that all dad's have to have with their sons.

Mine was when I was about 13-14. As I recall "Son, some day some young woman will want to take you to the bushes, that box on the shelf right there is condoms. Make sure you have some with you." That was a paraphrase, but pretty close to word for word, of the talk I got from my dad.

My mom on the other hand, was all in on giving a very clear and comprehensive related message to her sons, and to her GKs as well.

The classics Boys Growing UP and Young Men and their Physiques were her go to books that were required reading assigned by mom. They are on the shelf at my parents home to this day. Their three grand sons have read them. She also engaged with the only grand daughter on the topic as well but that remains just between my mom and my niece.

I cannot imagine what would

I cannot imagine what would possess an adult to call a 17 year old child a wh***? Disgusting.

I know, right? I was

I know, right? I was particularly taken aback by the use of the word. DH wasn't sure if BM actually said that or if it was just SS, but it seems like a strange word for a nearly 17 year old boy to use on his own (there are plenty of other slang terms that imply the same thing).

Well, she's losing her (male)

Well, she's losing her (male) mini-wife, isn't she? She sees his girlfriend as "the other woman".

Not that I expected your BM

Not that I expected your BM to be an angel as a MIL but calling a teen girl a wh*re is just trashy. Especially when it comes from someone who, IIRC, has cheated on her spouses and BFs in the past.

I know SS is a pain, but I feel sorry for him in this instance. His mom is going to ruin any relationship he has and teach him that this is okay. Probably time for DH to sit both his kids down and talk about how that kind of language and behavior from an IL to a partner isn't okay, and if the kids can't stand up for their partners to their parents, they aren't ready to date or be in a relationship.

Heck .... most of the men we

Heck .... most of the men we read about on here allow their own parents to speak to their wives in such disrespectful ways. But, we know they would go the extra mile for their kids.

Yeah, he's in for a hard road

Yeah, he's in for a hard road with BM...she'll not only ruin romantic relationships, but I think she will also be an emotional drain on her, if he lets her, because she definitely uses others as an emotional outlet. When I met DH, she would call him multiple times a day to either rage, cry, or seek some other sort of emotional validation. And she was already remarried at the time. It is terrible that she would say these things about a teen girl (just because her son wants to spend time with this girl, from what I can gather) and especially terrible that she would say them to her other child (who also goes to school with this girl and lacks discretion and maturity). If he's told DH what his mother thinks of this girl, I'm sure he's told others.

I don't think they are not ready to hear anything from DH that sounds like criticism of BM (she has spent the last decade convincing them that DH is just out to "get" her because he "hates" her), but DH is big on respecting women and has always told them that they need to respect women and girls, including calling them out when their language is inappropriate (like in this instance where told other SS what a degrading word that was and how it's completely inappropriate to use to describe someone).

To further complicate matters, MIL doesn't say things that are as openly offensive and derogatory, but she is big into undermining people and she now has a direct communciation channel with SSs (she calls and texts them directly and makes plans to see them on her own regularly). She repeatedly tells them all the things that she thinks DH is doing wrong and has now started to subtly insult our toddler (by regularly telling SSs how "spoiled" she is). I'm sure she also says things about me. That one is harder to overcome, IMO, because she's more subtle about it and she always presents herself as "just trying to helpP. DH has told them that things MIL says are untrue and that she shouldn't be saying them, but he is not good about shutting his mother down...and when he's tried, she's ignored him and played the victim.

First, I agree with other

First, I agree with other posters about having the "talk" and I would also set expectations as far as curfew, etc., just so everyone is on the same page. :) I wouldn't want your SS to get stuck with a baby but he certainly should be having fun with his girlfriend, like hanging out and stuff. It sounds like he enjoys being with her and he needs interaction with kids his own age. It sounds like BM is jealous that her son is spending time with someone else. My ex-husband hated any girl his son was with, even discouraged his son from visiting his own mother - because it took son's time away from him. I remember my ex complaining about how his son was "always with that skank" when he had his first girlfriend. I was glad my SS was out doing things that normal kids his age did. Of course, when that relationship ended, my ex husb went to great lengths to isolate his son from anyone his own age, and before I left, they had only each other, acted like a married couple. It was gross. My ex and his son were also enmeshed and codependent.

I would say just take it day by day, be supportive of SS even if his mother isn't, set expecatations/consequences, but encourage him to have a life. Every kid deserves to enjoy life. Hopefully SS will see how twisted his mother's relationship with him is once he gets time with someone his own age.

DH is supportive and has told

DH is supportive and has told both SSs that he knows they are teens and will want to spend more time with friends than with parents.

I am going to plant a bug in DH's ear again about the importance of being clear with SS on ideas like consent, protection, being respectful, etc. He has already told both kids not to solicit or send explicit pics via phone, but maybe that reminder is needed again as well.