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justmakingthebest's picture

I let my exH know that I was seeing an attorney about child support last week. I didn't tell him the outcome of that meeting, but it was what we all thought- deciding to become a stay at home dad to your younger kids doesn't get you off the hook for child support for your older kids. Based on their calculations, I would likely actually get closer to $400/ mo more if he does take me back. 

I just got a message (which makes me think he met with a more local lawyer) that they will not be re-evaluating child support and he will continue with the current order.

So now I am wondering, do I let it go, or do I take my attorney's advice and start nickle and dime-ing him for all medical costs that he is supposed to be paying that I never asked him for. I have a $34.00 bill in my purse right now. I am still tempted to send it to him and remind him that per our divorce he is responsible for 70% and at the advice of my attorney, I need to collect on this and all future medical costs even though I haven't in the past. I was told that even if a prescription is $1- send him the receipt and get that $0.70. 

I am feeling very petty betty right now, but maybe I should just let sleeping dogs lie. 

Comments

CastleJJ's picture

You have had a positive coparenting relationship in the past. Your ex agreed to stick to the current CS agreement which is what you originally wanted. Do you think it is wise to nickel and dime him going forward? Do you think it is in the best interest of your positive coparenting relationship? You've said it before that your kids expenses haven't decreased (which is why you fought the reduction in the first place) but have they truly increased? What are your motives for wanting to nickel and dime your ex? Is there truly a need for more money or do you just want it because you are entitled to it? The issue has been resolved and you won. 

Remember, attorneys make a living off of conflict so getting you fired up is their goal, to poke holes in your current arrangement with the hopes that you'll end up in court with you paying their retainer... Don't fall for it. The status quo has worked for you in the past up to this point. 

If you start down this road, your ex may feel that you are doing it as payback because he questioned CS and it might make him less agreeable to flexibility in the future. If you appreciate your flexibility and willingness to work together and you don't want to be forced to stick to the CO, I wouldn't push your luck. It is much harder to repair a broken coparenting relationship. Larger medical bills I can understand seeking reimbursement for, but tiny ones... It seems HCBM to request reimbursement for even a $1 prescription so to speak. You wouldn't like it if your HCBM did it, especially given your toxic relationship with her, so don't do it to your ex, whom you have a positive relationship with. It will turn a good thing ugly. 

justmakingthebest's picture

Yeah... I will let it go. 

I am just still butt hurt and angry over it all. I feel like I was too nice in the past which is why this even came up. I need to figure out where the line of being taken advantage of is and where just peaceful parenting is. 

The_Upgrade's picture

That line is wherever you feel like drawing it. For a HCBM that line is at a cent. They'd split a single cent if they could. You have been nice because you ARE nice. If there is one suggestion I could make it is that ongoing you only discuss CS, reimbursement, etc with your exH and not his wife. She's more than free to discuss it with him privately but she crossed the line by being the point of contact in this whole mess. 

CastleJJ's picture

I don't think you were too nice in the past. The situation worked for you and your ex up until this point and it had nothing to do with "niceness". You could have been a ruthless BM who demands full support, but it would have cost you a positive relationship with your ex if that were the case.

I think you are feeling resentment toward your ex because he is trying to put his second family first and you are angry for your kids. It is making them seem like an afterthought and it is making you question your coparenting relationship. I wouldn't let this blip in your timeline impact the future of your coparenting relationship. 

He asked because his situation is changing. Was it poorly thought out and executed? Absolutely, but he communicated with you and you both worked it out. 

If the shoe was on the other foot and you and DH had small children together and you decided to be a SAHM and you asked your ex for a CS modification to accomodate due to you no longer working, he would probably feel the same way you do right now. He would feel like it is not his job to accomodate your life choices and that he shouldn't owe you more money. It's hard to experience the impact of choices made by exes that continue to impact our lives (and the lives of our kids) long after the divorce is final. 

Maxwell09's picture

I think you should let it go and stick with the current child support order that is already in place so upload or send him the reciepts for his portion of medical/etc. He knows that you know you would (should) be getting more monthly and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to calculate that half or whatever of some medical costs would be a lot less than a permanent monthy increase. 

justmakingthebest's picture

I have never asked for medical reimbursement- even though I should have. With the exception of some dental work- both kids needed expanders a few years ago, I asked for 1/2, and 1/2 of my son's wisdom teeth surgery. None of the specialist visits (Neurologist, pain specialist, pain therapist) for my daughter's chronic migraines, the ER visits, my son's therapy for anxiety- none of it. 

My lawyer said that it was a mistake to do that- but that is their job, to make sure that I have the most. That is why I am torn. If he can so quickly try and drop his financial duty- why should I keep picking up what he is responsible for? 

I think I will probably let it go- even though I know DH will be pissed- just in an effort to keep the peace. 

lieutenant_dad's picture

Perhaps you internally need to set a limit on the medical piece. If the bill is, say, less than $100 (or $50 or whatever), you pay it. If it's more than that, you get your 70% reimbursement. That will limit what may feel like pettiness and "nickle-and-diming". If he is stupid enough to say anything, then you let him know this is his one warning that you haven't been sending all the bills but will going forward if he continues.

I think going from nothing to all of a sudden following the CO to the letter is a bit extreme in this particular situation. However, if he and his wife become bitter and sour toward you all, or the kids end up hearing about this, I'd start treating the relationship like a business contract versus a "friendly family relationship".

Maxwell09's picture

And definetly keep a running total for ALL expenses you've paid for whether he puts in to some of them or you pay them in full on your own because it will help you in the future. I used to keep a running total of expenses. We just left child support court and it helped DH prove that BM didn't need a reduction in child support (something she's only now just being ordered to pay 8 years later) because he could show that we pay for everything from medical insurance to copays to baseball cleats so it takes the winds out of her sails when asking to not pay the full amount. 

still learning's picture

 just in an effort to keep the peace.

So you have to sacrifice financially to keep the peace with your exH?  How is this fair to your kids?  They are entitled to support from their father, why are you denying them that? Why is it your job to subsidize his obligation to his children?  This doesn't sound at all peaceful. Fact is you've already broken the "peace" by consulting a lawyer. The fairytale relationship you had with the ex and his wife is long gone, it will never be the same.  Time to forge a new co-parenting path with him paying his fair share.  

Merry's picture

I'm not so sure I'd be so generous as to just let it go. He's already underpaying support by $400/month, so you're already eating $4800 every year.

How much do you spend on medical? Maybe you don't want to send him receipts for the small stuff, but if a medical bill is over X amount, then you will. And I'd tell him that. Your attorney reminded you that he should be picking up medical expenses, but you still don't want to mess around with the small dollars but going forward you'll expect his support for the larger bills. And you define "large." And offer 50/50 instead of 70/30 if you want to throw him something so that it's evident you're still being cooperative.

justmakingthebest's picture

I max out both of their deductibles every year- so that is 2K for the military. I am thinking from now on any single invoice over $50 or if I spend more than say... $200 in a month total- I can give a single email with the costs (copies of invoices and receipts) and ask for 1/2. Maybe even remind him that I am only asking for 1/2 and not the 70% per our decree. 

tog redux's picture

I wouldn't nickel and dime him, but I think it's fair to tell him that you haven't been requesting medical reimbursement but plan to do so in the future, since he is underpaying CS. 

ndc's picture

I would not nickel and dime him.  I wouldn't ask for 70% of a $34 bill, but I'd keep track of it all.  Then, I would not hesitate to request 70% of something significant (what that is depends on your finances,  but I'd think $100 would be for most people), and if I got a peep of protest I'd show him the total that I did NOT ask him for and start requesting 70% of everything going forward. 

I'm pretty sure he's trying to take advantage of your desire for an amicable co-parenting relationship, but he's not stupid and he knows now that you won't bend to his will on everything in order to maintain that cooperation. God for you for holding firm for the benefit of your kids. 

Survivingstephell's picture

Save all of the medical receipts and records. When the total gets to be too much for you to bite, send them to him with a copy of CO.  In my mind you are being to nice.  What's the advice give around here? Follow the CO. 
 

 

still learning's picture

Being "nice" or as the FLDS say, "Keep Sweet" is no way to have a co-parenting relationship.  If you and your children have to sacrifice financially to have a "good relationship" with their father then it's a win/lose. Win for him, lose for you and your joint kids. He made these kids, it's not fair for him to get off the hook just because he decided to go forth and continue to spread his seed. Maybe he should have considered if he could afford more children before he created a second family.  He should be contributing to their medical expenses as well as their daily needs. 

It's not a "good" relationship if you and your kids have to sacrifice for him and his new family.  Sorry, no. He needs to pay up. Quit being "nice." It's not nice if your kids suffer.  

He made his bed...well, he bedded and made children with multiple women. What does he expect? Did he forget how expensive kids are?  Does he think he gets a pass for his first set of kids?  If so he's an a**.  

***All IMHO of course. I've been there, nice just means that you sacrifice for him.  Haven't you done enough?

***FLDS; "Keep Sweet," is a term that polygamous wives use as to not rock the boat. Step relations are pretty close to polygamous and plural wife situations with multiple women and children competing for resources and attention from one man. 

 

simifan's picture

I guess I'm the odd one out. I'd be asking for a review. The way I see it. He opened the door & pushed the issue. He knows you are due $4800.00 more which is why he is backing off. That's a lot of money to give up that is due your kids. $5000.00 a year will certainly help with college if you don't need the money. 

SteppedOut's picture

I agree! Op, sure you can "afford" to be short changed on support and medical expenses - your children are not "suffering" for it.

But, why? How much faster could you have afforded to retire if he paid his actual fair share? Why are you waiting longer to retire, so he can retire at the ripe age of 40? 

DPW's picture

I'm with you too. 

Ex knew exactly what he was doing, including using his wife to contact you instead of himself over this. He opened the door, now y'all can walk through it together with a new court order that shows a higher child support, the 70% on medical and dental and whatever else you can get new or get him paying that's old.

A review is also fair as it has been a long time. 

HowLongIsForever's picture

I am, at a minimum, rough around the edges so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

Basically, the way I see it, you stick to the order.  Even if you want to throat punch him for behaving like a clown recently.

As for the CS:  The attorney confirmed what you already knew, that your position was legally supported.  Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think anything has changed as far as the circumstances factoring into said position. 

If that's the case I think your best bet is to find an outlet for your frustration on the topic and simply enforce what IS ordered.

On the rest of it?  Same thing.  Enforce what IS ordered.  Zero reason to not hold him accountable for his share when it comes to what IS ordered.

If you're not comfortable with that, first I would recommend you sit down to really determine why not.  Second, if you still feel the need to enable him, give yourself some guard rails.

Here in MI there's a certain threshold of cost to be borne by the CS recipient before extraordinary medical expenses are then shared (according to the income split) so if there isn't a similar boundary in your order perhaps creating an internal one would be best for you.

At that point you're not asking for $0.70 on $1, you're asking for 70% of the cost after you've covered the initial $X each year. 

Set some ground rules for yourself ahead of time so that you don't have to rely on emotion to make a decision when the time comes.

Just keep in mind:  It is not retaliation, or negotiating in bad faith, to start following the order.  It is not punishment to enforce the order.

He has shown you, intentionally or not, (certainly at least by way of his wife) that your flexibility breeds entitlement rather than appreciation.

If requiring him to fully participate in the court ordered minimum is enough to fracture your co-parenting relationship there wasn't really one to begin with.

 

StrawberryPie's picture

I dont think you need to nickel and dime him.  He had no problem taking advantage if your kindness and generosity.  I'd stick to the CO and split the med expenses per the CO - that's why you have it.  

I'm amazed by such a dumb dumb move on his part.  

justmakingthebest's picture

I still have to figure out how to approach it, but I agree with many of you who stated we have a CO for a reason, we should be following it. 

I will probably let things die down a little with their move and as we are working out our new visitation schedule bring it up. I can even just something like "in reviewing our past agreements and divorce, I realize that I haven't been following the CO. How would you like me to present medical expenses to you? In a monthly statement? As they arrive? I will not request funds from past events but moving forward we should be following the CO". I will aslo respectfully ask that in the future anything to do with finances and our children be addressed only between him and I. I realize that I coordinate with his wife for a lot of things but when it comes to finances, that it between us. 

I really hope that this little blip doesn't turn into a whole thing with long lasting effects. I just want things to continue smoothly, us work for the best choices for our kids and respect each other. We have done it for a long time, I don't see why it can't continue. 

tog redux's picture

Well, if it does change, it's his fault, not yours. You were sacrificing to keep a positive relationship and he took advantage of that. 

monkeyseedo's picture

My ex never paid his portion of medical bills, or braces, dental work as he was supposed to.  His CS was a miserly $500 a month for two kids- never took him for a re-eval -which I should have.  He also took 1/8th of his visitation time so those were extra expense for me as well.  He's left for S. America now for the last year to where his family is.  Hasn't only talked to them a couple times since and because I insist the boys call him.  

I never thought he'd agree to it-but he did.  My 21yr old son has some mental health/substance abuse issues and he needs to get away from here, yesterday his dad agreed to have him come down- IF I send him $300 to help w/his expenses LMAO.   The man is a damn joke.  But at this point I'm almost willing to do it to get him out of here. 

I say in your case, tell him moving forward you will be searching his portion of medical bills, does he prefer them as they come in, or once every 3-6 months or end of the year?  

still learning's picture

Most CO's have a time period where medical and other reimbursements need to be sent, mine is within 30 days of receipt of the bill.  

ESMOD's picture

Child Support is for the Children.  Honestly, by agreeing to less than he might have to spend.. there is some amount "less" that his kids are getting.  Unless you are able to fully fund their college educations.. have funds to buy them cars at 16 and cover all those bills.. in some way.. they are suffering by you not accepting the full amount due to them.

Even if you were to just put that extra into a college fund for their future.. or a savings account for a future need for them.

It seems wrong to financially be frugal when in reality.. your EX is causing you and your DH to subsidize his obligations to his children.

Thumper's picture

I would re-visit the out of pocket medical and/or dental expenses that tri care will not cover. Add  30day pay the bill suspense.