I wish you were dead and how to cope?
Both of SO’s kids (7 and 4) have been making comments that very much bother us.
They get downright mean with each other but the words they use are extremely disturbing.
The little on has in the past told his sister “I wish you were dead.” Then this weekend the oldest in anger said about how she wanted to hurt her brother with a knife.
These are not things they learn in our home. I work in mental health and know how easy words lead to action. Both SO and I approach these statements with a lot of seriousness. We ensure the kids understand the implications of their statements. That death is permanent. That attacking anyone with a knife is not a joke and can kill.
We didn’t even think about this being an issue outside of our home until this weekend we were told by BM’s family that the little one has been saying this stuff around them also.
I don’t know how to proceed. I don’t know what advice to give my partner. BM want’s to blame us for everything wrong with the kids yet she refuses to get them help. She has been told by a doctor that the little one need’s to speak to a therapist and SO has given reasons for the oldest to but BM refuses. She tries to say that there are no problems at her home but clearly this isn’t just with us.
Other than taking the kids to an acute care hospital which is overkill she’s blocked SO’s attempts to take them to a therapist himself. She’s made it clear that any attempt on his part would lead to major issues and he has talked to the school which really set her off. On top of it the therapist there basically says “it’s not a school problem so I can’t help you.”
Has anyone else had kids this young saying stuff like this? How did you deal with it outside of seeing a therapist? I don't know what we can do.
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I can't say I have crazy
I can't say I have crazy amounts of experience... But SD4 did go through a phase where she threatened to "stab her sister with a fork" or one told her nana "When I'm big like you, I'm gonna stab you with this fork." I thought it was highly inappropriate. I talked to DH and we SHUT IT DOWN. Told her that wasn't okay, asked how she would feel if she got stabbed with a fork and if she thought it would hurt, she responded with yes and she would be sad. And I haven't heard it since... I honestly think this conversation was easier because she's four... If it had been SD8 it would have been trickier... But with SD4 we just brought the reality in to her and she seemed to figure out the rest herself. Kind of like how if a puppy bites, one of the training methods is to nip their ear a bit so they know that it hurts, or to yelp out like the puppy would if it had gotten bit... Just brings it to them as more of an issue and an understanding. Because it's harder for a little kid to see pain and action as the same thing sometimes, they're still developing and at four are getting to the independent stage, but don't quite see the separation yet. (this is mostly just reading I've done, lol... Don't take all of it word for word... I've only experience it with SD4 personally... Or a kid that was four when I was nannying had the same issue for bit...)
I feel we've done our best to
I feel we've done our best to shut it down in our home which is why when we found out that the little one is saying this stuff in the other homes we were kind of taken back.
From what we were told this is very common while he's with his grandfather. We honestly don't know what is taking place at mom's home and we're not going to start interrogating the children.
It really disturbs me because this is one more thing that we're out of touch with. We get "issues" fixed here then find out its still a problem else where. I know we can't fix the other homes but these comments are not acceptable. The violent behavior that the little one was showing is not ok and from what we're told it really hasn't changed all that much outside of our home.
It's like we live in this bubble where for the most part the kids are doing well. Then we find out how bad it is for them elsewhere and nothing is being done to help them. BM is in complete denial and tries to say "well that's not a problem here" and we're being told it is.
Honestly I feel like we were told because family is hoping SO can do something more to help. He's been told repeatedly that BM is failing and that family is worried but none of them will step up and do anything real that would actually help us.
I wish I had a better
I wish I had a better answer.. BM's probably gonna have to get on the same page to help with all this... I think the only reason ours works with SD4 is because we have them all the time so we were consistent... Or the kid I was a nanny for, because his parents were on the same page with me... Consistency is HUGE for kids...
My OSD would often write that
My OSD would often write that she wished someone would take her sister away.. or kill her..etc..
I thought it was quite disturbing.. but she was very jealous of her younger sister. I also think she somehow blamed her younger sister for being the reason her parents split up.(not true)..
Even to this day, the older still treats her sister dismissively at times though uses her for babysitting when it suits her..lol.
i don't think it's unusual for kids to say stuff like this, but it is important for adults to correct and explain that it is not acceptable. If that talk is being noticed by others outside your home.. I think the kids can have more discussions on properly voicing their frustrations.
We do our best to keep
We do our best to keep communication open. We make sure they understand they can say they are mad and angry all they want but these statements are not ok.
Each time it has happened the child was given a short time out so that all parties could calm down. Then either my partner or both of us talk to the kids. They know that I work in mental health or at least that I work with people who have tried to kill themselves. We've discussed how people do this and how sometimes it's because the mean things others say to them. We ensure they understand how seriously they hurt each other. The youngest did seem remorseful and really did hug his sister close after apologizing because we asked what he would do if she were gone.
With the oldest my partner made sure she understood exactly how serious her statement was. That attacking him with a knife wasn't a joke and could kill him. He also talked about how she had ever right to be upset and she wasn't in trouble for that but that she can't say things like that. We knew she didn't mean it but if she said that to someone else she would more trouble that we couldn't protect her from.
Part of me worries that we're almost too open but they are saying adult things in my mind and need to understand the full extend of what those things mean. That death isn't a joke and you don't just stand back up afterwards.
Document, document, document
Document, document, document - and send it to the attorney. Get family to make a statement or text you what they heard. Attach it with the doctor's recommendation for therapy and any documentation you have of her refusal to take them to counseling.
At this point, I'd set up appointments and take them. Let her tell a judge why she was refusing to do something a doctor recommended, or why she cancelled the appointment, or why she refused to cooperate. If it's not an issue in her home but it is yours, let her explain why she feels Dad shouldn't get professional help when he feels he needs it.
I will say that I think *some* of this is kids being kids, pushing their boundaries, etc. I think that them NOT doing it with you but doing it with other adults probably means that they know they shouldn't but can get away with it so they do it. I doubt they mean it, like truly mean to want to hurt one another. However, without constant correction, they may "play it through" and cause actual harm. Similar to kids who play with guns knowing they are dangerous; it's just a game/play to them because they don't really understand. Still concerning, but not budding sociopath concerning, if that makes sense.
My young child has said
My young child has said things like this- she heard awful things on youtube and did not know what they really meant (i.e., death is permanent). We took away toys and privileges and it worked pretty quickly. We also activated the restricted settings on youtube.
I know you have another household that they go to where you cannot make rules. You can only enforce that, "We don't say things like that in this house"... sit them down and tell them what types of things they cannot say, the resulting punishments which should be consistent and fit the crime. Then, never let them get away with it.
SS6 recently came back home
SS6 recently came back home from Bms weekend with a little more evil in his characters than before. I remember him jumping out of BMs car, hugging DH and DS2 then starting to play with him. I was inside cooking, looking through the window. Next thing I know DH is raiding his voice to SS. I open the door and ask, “what’s up?” and SS tells me he was pretending to “cut” BS’s neck. To be fair we don’t know if he got it from his new friend over at BMs (which she will encourage tenfold if we complain about) or if he caught it from one of her shows (usually lets him watch freddy and Jason etc).
I can’t tell you how to fix it, but I can tell you that we made it very clear to him to never play like that again and we were disappointed that he would even pretend to hurt his little brother who loves him. He hasn’t done it again...here...I’ve hesrd he gets in knock down drag outs with his other brother at BMs.
Dontfeedthetrolls...... How
Dontfeedthetrolls......
How did BM respond (if) when you asked her IF the kids are doing this at her house too?
I know what it is like to live in fear inside your own home.
I am sorry.
SO has tried to discuss
SO has tried to discuss issues with her and she refuses to hear it.
She claims that there are no problems at all.
In the past the boys teachers have complained about how violent his behavior had come yet she ignores it or makes excuses. She claims she doesn't see any of the anxiety the oldest shows.
I've written about the youngest issues with the bathroom and its a good example. At first she denied there was an issue. Finally she started making excuses. When she did take the kid to the doctor she went online looking for sympathy about how the doctor said the boy needs to see a therapist. SO thought finally and tried to talk to her again and now she's again refusing to see any issue. She flat out refuses to take the kid and now claims the doctor actually said it was something else despite SO having called the office himself for the report.
She wants to blame us. She denies there are problems in her home despite what others are telling us and what she herself plastered all over social media.
She doesn't want to hear anything that hurts her image of being MotY. Her family is fearful if they say anything she will respond by taking the kids away completely though that wouldn't happen because she dumps them there all the time.
Any time there is an issue she shuts down communication, tells pity me lies, and has in the past disappeared with the kids for short periods of time. We don't think she left the city but she'll hide out somewhere.
The hardest thing is tracking it. We keep all the records we can and are even to the point of recording phone calls but she knows just how far she can push it and sadly the court here doesn't care. They don't want to think a mom shouldn't have the kids.
And that's where we are at this second. She refuses to even talk. She tried coming up with this crap about how she said xyz and she would take the kids but she never did and can not produce the records to show it but SO can show the opposite. When backed into a corner she refuses to talk or will do the bare minimum to pretend she's taking care of the issue. Like I said right now she's trying to claim the doctor thinks the kids issues are physical but that is not true. SO is suppose to call the lawyer today and I'll find out what comes of it later. He has the repeated messages trying to help the kids. How she has gone against medical advice in the past but its not enough.
It honestly feels like she will have to pimp out the oldest and beat the youngest black and blue for it to go anywhere. Even then it seems like out state would make her take a class and give them back. We've caught her in so many lies.
Sorry adding this here. I
Sorry adding this here.
I think what makes it so worse is that BM refuses to communicate like an adult. She refuses to admit if there is a problem. She refuses to do anything but blame us. She sees every attempt from SO as an attack when really he just want's to fix it.
We don't care if it's our home or not because really this is on both of them. We can't tell what is causing the problems just that there is one. It doesn't matter who's fault it is the kids need help. And its normal. They are dealing with mom and dad's break up. That alone sends children to therapist.
She wont even talk to him now because he backed her into a corner on the most recent doctor visit which resulted in her being flat out told to take the boy to a therapist. She tried claiming SO stopped her in the past when that is not the case at all. He could be petty and send all the messages again but she has them and with her if she had ANY evidence to back her claim she'd be plastering it all over their family text app.
SO has multiple request documented and her either ignored them or is saying there is no problem. He has a doctor telling her to take the kid and she's self medicating. She's not hurting the children directly which is how she is getting away with this.
Its the doctors 'opinion' that the kid needs a therapist. It's the school therapist "opinion' that the children need to see someone. But it's not enough to do anything. We're trying to help before there's a massive issue but the writing on the wall is that by the time she does anything or allows us to it will be to late.
She's hiding stuff and we don't press the kids for information. We don't directly ask her family. This information was freely provided to us without any solicitation on our part. He's telling his grandpa to die and she is ignoring it. She didn't tell SO because she knows it only helps his case for the child seeing anyone. She hides problems in her home from what we have observed.
She doesn't want anything that breaks her image of being the perfect mother. She doesn't want anything that shows that he should have custody or more time with the kids. She blames him for everything. It's all his fault. She ignores the fact that it doesn't have to be anyone's. Its kids who need help. I can sit here and say everything she's done wrong and what we've done wrong. There's fault on both sides but what it boils down to is the kids need to speak to someone and she is preventing it. SO is truly worried about her behavior in the past. Any time he 'defies' her or does anything she doesn't like she 'punishes' him.
Even with CO's parents get away with a lot of crap.
OMG The good news is the
OMG
The good news is the school has addressed the concerns(edit) and brought them to BM's attention. Her image as Mother of the Year IS tarnished there. The flying monkeys of course will always erect billboards and moving marquees for Moms just like her.
I am soooooooooooooo sorry. My experience has shown me IF she is ordered to take the kids to counseling...nothing will happened IF she is not consistent. Maybe she will take them a few times...then poof she will stop. OR Dr Shop until they give her what she wants.
Sad....Please keep us posted.
Hope they get a few sessions to figure this out before it becomes worse.
Yeah SO pushed the school.
Yeah SO pushed the school. The boy's teacher keeps him updated but he's in preschool and other than seeing if he has any actually disorders (he doesn't) they can't do anything for him yet. The schools therapist did speak to the oldest and her teachers but the behavior doesn't slip into the classroom. Since all schoolwork is done their they have nothing to go on. She's a smart kid. I think there's no real pressure from the school like there is when it's her parents or other family members. She is terrified of failure. Anything 'bad' is treated like you've killed a puppy in front of her. Don't get me wrong. We still correct her but then spend the next 2 day's building back up her self-esteem and SO does not go overboard.
BM actually tried saying crap to the principle one day about me being at an event. She forgets SO can read lips (he's very hard of hearing) and he watched. He informed me later the principle basically told her "parents of all kinds are welcome." I saw her after this and she did not look happy. Hopefully they see how she is with all this because at the same time we saw how much she pushed future step dad who disappeared on the school.
Part of it is while we might be able to do some stuff to get them to see someone it's not going to work because if she's not on board we wouldn't be able to continue. They have to go down there because of insurance and just time constraints. The time that he has them is also limited so unless he takes them from school he can't do it. The CO will make it worse because then she can block him from taking them out of school during her time which he fully believes she will.
Unless someone is willing to testify in court we can't forcer her to take them and they won't do that until all hell breaks loose.
I feel like we are playing a waiting game. We're watching for something bad to happen and just hoping it does before too much damage has been done. I fear that's what it will take before a court will believe she isn't the best for the children. She plays a good game like all of them do but when you sit down and actually listen to the kids they are hurting.
How many times have I
:jawdrop: How many times have I screamed at my brother - I will kill you..... sleep with one eye open, I know people who will take you out...
how many times did a brother told me, if I kill you all I'm an only child...
What did my parents do.... absolute nothing, either they said.. stop that crap seems like you are bored and gave us chores to do, or they punished all the children if we got physical with each other.. once again cause we had nothing to do, as per their minds, we got disgusting chores to do...
then the 3 of us would sit together, while doing chores and plot their death.... or to run away... but none of this ever happened..
I think it's simply sibling communication lol.... It's not that we do not love each other, oh hell if you touched on of our siblings we would be all over you like crazy animals, we have the right to kill each other and be nasty towards each other, cause we are siblings, but if you where not a sibling you had no right...
Maybe you are making to much of a fuss about it, maybe you should simply think of something that forces the 2 killers to do something together, something they can bond over and planning how to "kill" you, I remember my parents would always after we cooled down and plotted and planned their death, come and sit with us and then give us this whole speech of it's not nice if we fight, it breaks their hearts, to punish us hurt them more then us and we only have each other.. hey hey we would be in tears, apologize and hug and there would be peace in the house for about 2 hours lol..
The bulldust of parents hurting more punishing us then what we hurt when being punished got me into trouble one day, cause I asked them well why do you punish us then if you get so hurt (in a very cocky way) and my brothers started laughing,, yeah our punishment got prolonged cause I dared giving them lip
Kids do crap. Just wait when
Kids do crap. Just wait when you get your own. They’ll do and say crap too.
I don’t recall myself and my brother (one year age difference) speaking like this to each other but we used to physically fight like beat each other up. I mean not seriously beat like call 911 kind but still fight pretty bad Lol until age 14-15. We then abruptly stopped.
We still don’t know why we fought. We love each other deerly, are there for each other and are close. We recently recalled it again at family dinner and my DH was just dying laughing at how is it even possible that we fought as we aren’t even the type, we aren’t rough people whatsoever.
As about phrases “I kill you”, they have to be told to stop of course but I wouldn’t worry if they do it elsewhere. If they don’t do it in your house then honestly unless school complains I wouldn’t worry what happens in other houses. People in other houses could deal with it. Even if they do it in BM’s house, it’s in no shape or form is enough to fight for full custody. Judge would laugh at that.