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Skid asked for downpayment

StrawberryPie's picture

Hi StepTalkers!

My DH got a surprising call last night and had to share.  Background:  my DH has 3 kids with 2 different BMs (what a joy for me).  Skids are SS26, SD18, and SS14.  The oldest is a delight (he has a different mom than the other two).  He got married 2 months ago and my DH and I paid for their wedding (gave them $$ which covered their wedding and then some so they could have spent it however they wanted to).

Well, now they are looking at homes and want to buy a home.  But their downpayment isn't enough apparently and my SS26 called my DH last night asking if they could borrow $10K.  We were both pretty stunned.  He has never asked for money before and was pretty bashful / awkward during the phone call.  

Thankfully my DH said he would think about it and get back to him.  We talked about it and my opinion was - we just paid for their wedding, if they want to take this milestone step right now in their life they need to navigate through it.  (They both have very good jobs - make close to $200K combined, are renting a place so its not like they are destitute.)

But I was so shocked that this skid thought it was okay to view us as piggy bank for their life goals.  Jeez!

Comments

SteppedOut's picture

They make $200k combined and can't save $10k quickly? Really? They are not ready for home ownership. 

SteppedOut's picture

Exactly! 

If you can't save for the down payment... what happens when they need a roof or hvac system?

Crspyew's picture

Offers the ability to build equity and also carries certain tax benefits.  In my area while homes are expensive it is LESS expensive to own than rent.  I'd rather struggle and build wealth than struggle and build wealth for someone else. 

SteppedOut's picture

True - but if you can't afford home ownership (like the ability to save a down payment), then you are not ready.

If you can't save a down payment, how can you make repairs, like hvac or roof? Even maintenance - new flooring, appliances, etc. Will OP keep getting hit up for "loans"?

justmakingthebest's picture

I am not overly surprised. My brother just bought a house and didn't have the full amount for his down payment. DH and I helped with a few thousand and my parents helped with a few thousand to help make up his gap. 

I think that it's not overly uncommon for parents to help with down payments. Not that they have to or should be expected to, but not uncommon for parents to help with something like this. 

 

Picardy III's picture

I dunno - if he's never asked for money before, and was embarrassed to do so, seems they were just caught by surprise by real estate realities and need to adjust their price range.
Good that you told him no, but sounds like a young naive learning experience rather than entrenched entitlement (especially since he was asking for a loan, not a gift).

Also, if they make that much, they're probably just short on cash after the wedding but could pay the loan back very quickly. Again, not that you should have loaned it - but it's not unreasonable.

ESMOD's picture

My parents gifted me money to use as a downpayment for my first (very modest 3 br one bath home).  My parents have done the same for my brother.  

It's not uncommon when families can afford it to help their kids with milestone things.. but it isn't an obligation.  

Honestly, it would have been better had they done some calculating and planning on their home purchase/wedding... and prioritized the home purchase over spending money elsewhere on the celebration.

But... his son did ask this as a loan.  If your husband can afford to loan it.. (of course also prepared to not have it paid back.. but hopefully it would be).. he could talk to his son about the purchase.. maybe he even could ask his son and daughter in law to sit down and have a financial session with him or a financial planner to discuss their financial obligations and decide whether the home they want is really in their budget.. or if they are overreaching.  If he is satisfied they are in otherwise decent shape to buy a home.. and he can afford to LEND the money.. with a reasonable repayment.. I would not have an issue... as long as this amount isn't cramping your own finances.

BethAnne's picture

If this is a sum that you and your husband could afford to loan them if you wanted to and if you two feel inclined to consider it then I would question them about what type of repayment plan they had in mind. Are they thinking of paying this back within 6-12 months or would this be on a longer time scale? Would you be invested in a % of the property to be regained on the sale of the property or would it be a straight loan with monthly repayments. Will they pay interest? 

I think that sometimes loan officers and realtors do make suggestions that those struggling to find downpayments look to parents for financial assistnace. 

To me it is rude to ask for the financial help, especially when you were extreamly generous for their wedding recently and they are clearly earning plenty of money. But I could see that if your husband is keen to help and it is afordable to you both then it might be reasonable to loan them the money. Be aware though that what you provide for one child may become the expectation (either from the stepkids or your husband) that similar assistance will be provided for the other two.  

Crspyew's picture

Help out with downpayments.  I don't know where they live but $200k a year in our area means barely getting by.  We've gifted all kids (bios & steps) an equal amount for first home down payments.  We are fortunate to be able to do so.  It sounds like your stepson asked for a loan not a gift---that doesn't sound like entitlement to me.  

ndc's picture

I'd be curious to know how much of the downpayment $10K represented.  If it was a smaller portion, and was just the amount needed to avoid paying mortgage insurance or a higher rate for 30 years, and if he presented a fairly short repayment plan that was realistic based on their incomes, AND if they were not stretching to buy a home that was beyond their means, I might consider it if $10,000 wasn't a large amount of money to me.  I'd probably be surprised and disappointed that SS and his wife had prioritized a wedding party over a home downpayment, though.  (However, I think saying no is a fine decision as well, and perfectly reasonable)

If, on the other hand, $10,000 is the bulk of the downpayment, I'd probably decline to help out and let them wait until they are financially stable and able to buy a house on their own.  In other words, until they're actually ready for home ownership.

I don't think it's uncommon for parents to help out their kids with weddings and downpayments if they can afford to do so.  My parents helped with the downpayment on my house, but the amount was a rounding error on their financial statement, and it was offered rather than asked for.  I would never consider asking for downpayment money, even as a loan, if the amount was meaningful to my parents or in any way would affect their lifestyle or retirement.

 

JRI's picture

We gave each of our 5 the same amount of $ during tbeir twenties.  Three of them used it as downpayment, the other 2 used it for other things.  Parity is my stepparent religion, lol.  Of the 3 who used it for down payments,, one of them used it to buy a duplex, then parlayed that into better homes.  The other 2 ultimately sold their homes and did other things. 

We could afford it and it felt right.  That your SS is offering to repay is even better.  I can understand your hesitation after generously paying for the wedding recently

 

StrawberryPie's picture

That is very generous of you both!  I should mention SS did not offer to repay, he asked to 'borrow' the money but had no plan.  It wasn't like - we will repay you in 6 months at X% interest.  It felt very much like a 'hey, can you float us this $$'.

JRI's picture

I think you can count on the others expecting the same (wedding, downpayment) so that might factor into your decision, especially if you have diffetent feelings about them.  We are so worn down by our 5 that we had no expectations of brilliant decisions from them, we did it fairly and let the chips fall.  Lol.

CLove's picture

Last October with ZERO downpayment.

If he was asking for a loan and makes 200k combined, then it was more than likely very short term. Right now, interest rates are at a super all-time low. Like super low. And rising also, very quickly. Here in California people are snapping up real estate because they know the interest rates wont hold. My guess is its a short term loan to take advantage of this.

It doesnt seem entitled to me, but it just really depends on how you feel.

JRI's picture

My 26yo GS just bought a home in the city where he works.  I was astounded, he just started working in March altho he makes good money.  I tried not to pry but asked about his interest rate.  He said it was " higher", in the 4% range, because he had no down payment.  4% sounds high compared to current rates but compared to the rates I recall in the '70s and '80s, it's low.

Seriously7's picture

I can't understand younger people these days feeling entitled to their parent's money. It seems to be becoming more and more common. My parent's are divorced and neither paid anything toward my wedding and I didn't expect it and I didn't ask. Your stepson and his wife should be grateful their wedding was paid for and leave it at that. How do they think it's ok even asking for a down payment, especially when they make a combined $200,000! They should be ashamed of themselves, especially your stepson.

StrawberryPie's picture

This is I how I felt too.  But after reading these comments I am wondering if I am being to scooge-esque.  I would have never dreamed of asking my parents for money when I was an adult.  If I couldn't afford that lifestyle, then I couldn't afford it - tough.  And I hear a lot about 'if the parents have the $$ ' part.  My parents had money, but it was very clear it was their money and I was broke until I made my own money - just because it was their money did not mean I had access to it.

CLove's picture

After reading your comments - bad idea and sets a precedent with the others. Even in my limited amount of time (6 years in, 2 married, Ive see the intensity of the whole "you give to the 1 you MUST give same to the 2 (or 3...or more) SD14 gets resentful if I get something, she figures she must get something too...always.

So, the SS must be told no. "borrowing" vs "borrow" = you dont get paid back and the others will resent you.

Seriously7's picture

And...I believe any time you "loan" money to a family member you have to go ahead and assume it will be a "gift" so as to prevent conflict if the loan is not paid back.

JRI's picture

I prefer to gift money to kids rather than lend.  Preserving the relationship is most important to me.

tog redux's picture

My parents gave me 10K for a downpayment. In fact, they've given all of us 10K here and there to spend down at their financial advisor's suggestion.

I think that if DH can afford it and he thinks the kid will pay it back, he should do it. If they kid won't pay it back, or has a history of being irresponsible with money, then no.

ndc's picture

This is what my parents do as well - taking advantage of gift tax exclusions to reduce their eventual estate taxes.  It makes sense if you expect your estate to be large enough to be taxed.

StrawberryPie's picture

These comments are so enlightening.  I kind of feel a bit like a meany now saying they need to figure this out.  My DH is the spender and I'm the saver of the two of us.  So I paid for their wedding and this $10K would be coming from me as my DH doesn't have it.  But on principle, I can't see giving this to them just because they want it.  I want a lot of things too but unless I have the money, I don't get to have it.  And I guess I think, 'well, SS and daughter-in-law, maybe you should have thought about saving for a home when you were buying a new truck and snow mobile.' 

So I guess we have some thinking to do.  

justmakingthebest's picture

Or maybe say that you would be willing to offer $___ as a loan but you need to talk about the terms of repayment. That you want to help them succeed and love them but you just can't give them that amount. 

ESMOD's picture

If you or your husband have any inclination to entertain this request you probably should insist on these kids getting some financial counseling and sharing their financial planning with you.

They need to understand that they have a lot of financial obligations to meet.. now and in the future.. that they need a plan.  Maybe this house is fantastic.. but it may be more house than they really need to be getting into.  There is "house poor".. where you have all your money and ability to borrow tied up in a home.. that payment keeps coming month after month.. year after year.. a bigger and more expensive house may mean that your ability to buy recreational equipment is reduced or eliminated.. grand vacations may be at risk.. they need to decide whether wrapping up all their spending power in a home (as nice as it may seem now) is the right choice.. and what about children? how will that factor in their budget in a few years???

That house ... like the new car.. is only new for a short time.. then it just becomes "where you live" and "what you drive" and you may regret that you are spending so much of your income every month on those items.

ndc's picture

If your DH can't afford it himself, then I'd say no for sure.  YOU shouldn't feel any pressure at all to pay for the weddings and whims of your stepkids, especially if it's going to set a precedent for the other two.  I don't think it's being mean.  DH can honestly tell his kid that he does not have $10K to loan him.

 

Picardy III's picture

Whoa - you have separate finances, *you* paid for the wedding and any loan money would come from you and not your DH?

Did your SS know the wedding money came from you alone? If so, it's shocking and disrespectful that he would ask your DH for the loan and not include you in the initial conversation.

StrawberryPie's picture

I don't think SS knew it came from me.  We put on the united face infront of the skids.  And yeah, I feel kind of annoyed I wasn't even part of the conversation from the get go - but I learned in step world, I'm like a second class citizen.  Dad is primary and I'm an after thought. 

Picardy III's picture

Ehh - "united face" when it comes to money usually results in: SKs assume Dad is the provider of all $, and SM is a mooch sucking up Dad's resources that would otherwise go to the kiddos.

Many dads may purposefully not correct this view because of their pride in being seen as the provider, and many BMs foster this as well.
My SSs dropped comments showing their perception (clearly planted by their mother) that their dad "bought and supported" me. I wasn't about to let that poison take root, so made darn sure they realized I had a good job, and that their standard of living *increased* due to my income.
 

Cover1W's picture

My parents never gave me anything for a down payment on a home, I wouldn't have dreamed of asking. I rented until I had enough saved up (in a higher expense city). Sure it took me until I was 31, but oh well (I also wasn't ready to buy until then either).  24 seems young and why can't they wait another couple of years - is there a NEED for a home at this point in his life?

Exjuliemccoy's picture

Where are the bride's parents in all this?  Or BM1? Since you just paid for the wedding, why can't they help out with the down payment?

I think that's what bothers me the most in this - you just helped this couple out, and now they're back for more.

I'm also bothered by the fact that no payment plan was offered up front. Many of us know how it goes - when you buy a home, suddenly you need to buy all sorts of new stuff for it: furniture, drapes, decor, tools, etc. So if this couple hasn't managed to save even enough for a down payment, how quickly and how dedicated would they be to repaying you?

It's YOUR money, too. Personally, I would not be inclined to make such a loan at this time.

StrawberryPie's picture

The bride's mom has no money and lives with her parents (the bride's grandparents).  The bride was alienated from her dad when she was 16 and now has no relationshp with him by her choice.  We are wondering about BM1 too - if she was asked and if she is contributing too.  But we really have no idea.  I'm inclinded to say 'no' on this one as I feel like it is unreasonable and when do the asks end??  Def don't want to be financing their lifestyle and life choices.

notarelative's picture

DH and you need to sit down and really discuss this. DH needs some perspective. It's fine to help, but you have to be realistic. There are two more skids with weddings in the future. You have already set the precedent of wedding money gifts. And as was pointed out in a post above, mortgage companies might hold the 'loan' against them and ask for a gift letter. Do you also want to set a help with down payment precedent?

DH needs to look at the big picture. He has two more children in the wings. Is his retirement fully funded? Would this mean that the two of you would put off something you have been saving for?

If SS sounded bashful/ awkward during the call, is there a possibility that new bride pushed him into the call? I'd be afraid that this was the first of the awkward calls. First house. Then new baby expenses.

Adding. I just read that in addition to the wedding, they have a new truck and snowmobile. With this information, I'd say they are living above their means. Now is the time to push back and say no. They need to learn to delay gratification.

 

Watereddown's picture

This is a great example of why I don't like big weddings. Money could be used for lotta other stuff. *sorry2*

WarMachine13's picture

Yep!!

Rumplestiltskin's picture

My parents helped me with my downpayment. However, in an above post you said you paid for the wedding and it would be you paying for the downpayment. To me, i hate to say it, but that does change things. Between your husband and his 2 BMs, there are 3 parents here, and what do they pay for? You have no children and i would be cautious about setting this precedent since this is kid one of three. Unless this sum of money right after paying for the wedding is truly not going to impact your life or retirement at all, and unless you truly want to do it, i would advise against it. To me, 10k is a whole lot to gift. If it will cause you resentment down the road, just say you can't afford it after paying for his wedding. Also, why is your husband too broke to pay for anything for his kids? 

StrawberryPie's picture

He pays BM2 $3300 a month.  And since I am 1 of 3 that live here, I split expenses accordingly.  We keep our money separate but I feel like it is equitable.  He had a bunch of kids and baby mommas --> I don't need to finance it if I don't want to.

Rumplestiltskin's picture

$3300 a month just to BM2?! Damn right you don't need to finance his kids if you don't want to. So......don't! Who cares what a bunch of strangers on the internet think? YOU paid for the wedding of his son with BM1. Now same son is asking for $10 grand. Your DH wants you to pay it, because he's broke, even though that's just the equivalent of what he pays to BM2 every 3 months? I bet your DH takes credit for your "gifts" to his kids, too. You know you shouldn't pay for this. 

MissK03's picture

I'd be leary. They make good money between the two of them and they don't have kids yet and are asking for a loan. 
 

SO and I make around the same combined (not now as SO took a pay cut COVID related) and with 3 teenage skids..I can say it adds up pretty quick. 
 

We don't live outside our means at all, we are not "broke" by any means and SO just paid off all his dedt. Now we just have regular everyday bills. 

Are they possibly rushing since they just got married, want the house to go along with it, babies soon..etc.? 

StrawberryPie's picture

I def feel like they are rushing to buy a house mainly because they cannot afford the downpayment!  My SS did tell me before the wedding his bride grew up in a trailer and one of her life goals was to buy a home.  And I totally get having life goals, but I think they are something YOU should achieve not have other people do it for you.

Thumper's picture

That may be his goal...but it is not YOUR moral obligation to dig into your pocket for him. Tell him to get a 2 or 3rd job if he wants to buy his 'bride' a house.

 

MissK03's picture

Right. Especially at their ages, their salaries, no commitments to kids or anything, they should be banking a ton of money IMO. 
 

I know once the skids are grown and out of house.. SO and will be well off and traveling the world. 

Thumper's picture

Nope

They seem a little too bold for their britches.

 YOU paid for the big wedding NOW they want this.

Nope.

All of our money is tired up. It's for retirement and holds a hefty penalty if we withdraw. .WE are willing to gift you 1,000.00 IF you want to put it towards your down payment. Or we can put that 1,000.00 towards a new appliance if you want. YOU pick.

They are mooching. Making 200k a year.........nope, just nope.

 

 

Survivingstephell's picture

Ask many long term couples about their happiest times and many mention the lean years when first married. Don't take that away from them by giving them money.  Also, the more I read on this thread, the more dysfunction that comes to light.   Keep your money.  

Thumper's picture

^^^^THIS^^^^

Wow you are 100percent correct.

StrawberryPie's picture

Thank you for all your good input!  This is how it ended tonight:

My DH called SS and said 'no'.  Nicely of course, 'we love you very much, we were very generous with your wedding.  We think this is something the two of you need to navigate together.  Blah blah blah'

And honestly, the more I think about SS's request the more bold and inappropriate- ish I think it is.  We agreed we will talk to him next time we are together without the daughter-in-law.

TheAccidentalSM's picture

Do you think that your normally good SS is being manipulated by the new bride?  This cash ask sounds out of character.