Should I give up?
Hello there, I apologize in advance for the long post, I need help!
First off I would love to acknowledge how amazing this blog has been for me and I can only imagine the countless others...nobody can tell you what to do or how to do it when they haven't been in this situation and coming here is nothing short of AMAZING!
Here is my situation; I am absolutely in love with my boyfriend "Z" of 18 months, he has his shit together, great job, beautiful home, great life....in walks his awfully negative son he had when he was 25 years old with a 7 year long on again/off again relationship with a woman he is absolutely disgusted by! He never brought her around his family, friends, or his life in general. His sister has never even met the woman! This woman just doesn't fit into his world and I feel like an a$$ even saying that. She was available for him at 3am to do the dirty, then leave and he wouldn't speak to her for weeks/months.
So obviously, this woman got pregnant on purpose to keep him around as I've been told by his entire family and is so public on social media. He has money, she has none. He is handsome and well to do, she is very much not. Z claims relentlessly that it was "the biggest mistake of my life keeping that woman around as my doormat." His son we'll call "O" is a nightmare! Z gets him every Wednesday and every other weekend. Z comes from a very affluent family, salt of the earth type people whom I love tremendously! They've been vocal, acknowledging, and welcoming of me into this tumultuous picture. They have all told me countlessly how good I am for Z and O and that I have been a positive impact.
That's my issue, I love Z, I love Zs family, I HATE O. The kid is almost 9 years old and is the most negative entity I have ever encountered in my life. I work in medicine, in pediatrics, and I have an extensive background in child psychology and special needs as my Mom is a special needs teacher and adopted one of her kids as my sister.
I get it, the kid feels unwanted because he was in fact, unwanted. But he is so loved by Zs family, doted on, spoiled with gifts, lavish vacations, Z is the quintessential Disney Dad as he is always kissing Os ass! The family has told me how they feel the same but Z is sooooo sensitive about O, gets very upset when the topic of Os negative attitude, disobedience, and complete and utter disrespect for adults is discussed. The family just stays away from the topic now and has "accepted this is the way things are." I know they can't stand O, but they never, ever act like that because in the matriarchs bitten lip words, "Every child is a blessing."
I have tried for 18 months now to make it work. O actually does like me at times but I am beginning to realize it's because he is as manipulative as his mother! He sits on his iPad literally 24/7 when Z doesn't have him. On the most expensive vacation imagineable He called me, "dumb, stupid mean, go away for the day, you are not an adult, I don't respect you, you will never have children." I do want to have children with Z when the time comes but I would never allow them anywhere near O!
I am at my whits end...I love Z, I love Zs phenomenal family, I want a future with them all! But I do not want anything at all to do with O. I think the kid is malicious, dangerous, and disturbed. He hates everything and I mean everything including pizza...wtf kind of kid hates pizza! For the love of god, the only thing that this kid likes is his iPad. We were on this beautiful vacation with jet skis, chefs, private beach, private pool, 5 other cousins ranging from his Bff of same age to a little baby...O hated every minute of it, or at least acted like he did! He is so negative, oppositional defiant disorder entirely, and I feel he is a future suicide or much worse...
Guys! Should I just walk away, leaving this man I love and his family I adore all because I hate his spawn more than anything? Is it worth it to walk away because of this kid? I could never ask Z to choose between me and his child, that's just too much to even grasp for me. But I can't imagine a positive world for myself in which this child is in it! It's not normal, O isn't even close to anything I've ever witnessed in a child's behavior.
After our family vacation I told Z I would not be around when O is there, ever, until he is in therapy. Well guess what, he starts therapy tomorrow! Shall I stay a bit longer and see if Z sticks to it, or am I wasting my time and I should run while I have the chance.
Again, I apologize for the long post...I'm just not sure what to do anymore! Is it worth it?
I'm going to be very
I'm going to be very practical about this. O may need therapy, but Z needs it more.
What did Z do when his son said this? This is some ugly behavior, and I am sure you won't like me saying this, but Z is showing you who he is as a parent. You're sure you want to have kids with him? Because Z's philosophy seems to be to ignore and deflect and act as if "nothing can be done", when in reality there's plenty to do, he just doesn't want to do it.
I have so many questions.
I don't usually ask how old someone is, but I think in your case it may be relevant. Why does Z take O for visitation if he (Z) isn't really interested in bonding with any parenting him? Why not just pay the extra CS and be done with it? (I'm sure that sounds cold, but as you read here you'll see there are often problems where the only solutions are leave, or pay to make it go away -- and the latter works with varying levels of success.)
This is my second marriage and my DH and I did not agree on anything when my YSD was little and she was a terror! We had to hash a lot of this out, and there's still a lot of space between his parenting style and mine, but we continue to move closer to the middle and have successful, respectful conversations about the problems we have with each other and with the kids and we work towards solutions rather than blame. It doesn't sound like Z is at all willing to discuss these issues with his son with you, but yet, has now put him in therapy? Is this to appease you, or actually solve the problems O might have? Because if he's serious about making changes, why won't he openly discuss it with you?
Also, let me tell you a story. Once upon a time when I met my now husband, he had 50/50 custody of his kids. My SDs have now lived with us full time for 15 months and it's likely they will live with us until they are 18. The end.
Could you live with O full time?
Thank you for your response
Thank you for your response and I very much need the advice!
When I was visibly upset several times over the vacation, Z would either pretend like nothing happened or ONE night he took Os iPad away. Z claimed even that, "O said that to you because he sees right through you." Meaning that Os rude words were justified. Another family member, older male, intervened when he saw how O was treating me and tried to have a talk with O whom ran away and locked himself in a room.
Z claims he has sit downs with O about the way he treats me but says, "I don't want to spend the little time I have with him, punishing him. It sounds like you can't handle it." Almost as if the problem is ME and not Os blatant disrespect. I am 33, physician assistant. Z is 34, in wealth management.
Youre absolutely right that Z does not want to bind with the kid and does everything in his power to pawn the kid off on his family or gives up his Wednesdays/weekends because I feel deep down, he can't really stand being alone with O. I know deep down he hates his own child. Z plays every sport in the book, very social, tones of friends and O could not be any more the opposite! O refiuses any activity even when Z coached his soccer team for 3 seasons; O stood on the field either crying or would sit down. I do not know why Z won't just pay off the BM. He has given her several "loans" in which he gives her a lump sum of money and then deducts it from the overall CS payments. He pays her on time yet she never holds up her end of the bargain aka consistently withholds O from seeing Z.
Z claims that I hate O and that's the problem. He does not acknowledge all of the time, money, effort, and actual play I have put in to be with O when Z has him. Z claims it is all because I am not a parent and therefore, haVe no idea!
" I know deep down he hates
" I know deep down he hates his own child."
And therein lies the root of the child's issues. If you know that then surely he does too. He's crying out for some love and attention but all he gets is an ipad for company. He's no doubt heard his father's opinion of his mother.
It's time your beloved Z started parenting like a real father and stopped behaving like a teenager with no responsibilities. He's an awful father and not much better as human beings go. OTOH, you are possibly well matched given that you think Z should just pay off his son's mother... as if the child isn't even a human being.
I feel sorry for this child - nobody wants him and everybody is quite open about considering his mother to be cheap scum. He must truly hate every minute spent with Z's family. I bet his cousins don't let him forget where he comes from either.
Thanks for pointing out we're
Thanks for pointing out we're well matched because I feel the kid is better off without Z...honestly, I'm just looking for some advice. I get that O is a human being, otherwise I would simply ask he no longer exist in our life together. No need to be unkind, this is supposed to be a forum for people to vent.
Winterglow, I didn't think OP
Winterglow, I didn't think OP said that. *I* said that. And I'm not sorry about it either. This whole song and dance about every child needing both of their parents, just because their is a biological connection is absolute BS. If you can't think of at least a few children that would be better off without one of their craptastic parents, then you must live in fantasy land.
And in this case, I'll be extra callus and say that the father is adding nothing of value to this child's life and neither of them actually like spending time together. The child wasn't even wanted! Sorry, but if dad didn't want the kid then, there isn't going to be much to make him want the kid now. Dad is an idiot for not using protection -- aren't they all? -- but the child is here now and Dad still doesn't want him. Nothing has changed.
So why should everyone, and the child, be subjected to such misery? Let Dad remove himself from the situation and pay extra CS for years of therapy the kids is clearly going to need about his dad, whether Dad stays in his life or not.
However, OP, this guy is trash. I really do not see this ending well for you at all if this is how he's treating you.
I could never ever in a
I could never ever in a million years live with O full time. He needs constant entertainment, can't even take a shower without someone in the bedroom talking to him, can't do ANY chores because he doesn't "know how" including but not limited to bringing his plate to the dishwasher, throwing dirtying clothes in a hamper, or merely getting a snack for himself. The kid cannot say his Rs and he's almost 9! I pushed for speech but that's just not happening so he will be an adult that can't say his Rs. Can't tie his shoes. Can't do most things a 4 year old is capable of but Z claims O is a genius! O has fooled his teacher whom I am convinced has her hands so full with other kids that she does not realize the ODD kid in her class.
The kid isn't awful.. your BF
The kid isn't awful.. your BF is an awful parent. Kids are not static beings.. the ARE capable of growing emotionally and learning. Your BF doesn't want to do ANY work with his son.
O likely is a pretty smart kid...who knows he wasn't and isn't wanted.. do you think that might lead to behavioral problems?
And.. you have tried to suggest help for the kid... bless your heart.. but his father refuses to get help that a medical professional has suggested may be helpful to his child.
Sounds like he does the bare minimum as a dad.. and as a BF.
You may like the trappings that come with this guy.. his money.. his nice family.. the lovely trips.. but he isn't the nice guy you think. He is pretty selfish.. he is a poor father and he is a bad partner to you by not insisting on better treatment from his son.
It sounds like he has been used to just buying his way out of problems.. and wants to do the same here. What about when YOU become a problem? will he just pay to make you go away too?
Your BF seems to have some odd emotional issues himself.
You're absolutely right!
You're absolutely right! Thank you for pointing that out because I do wonder what he'll do to rid himself of me. Thank you for being kind as well, not everyone has been and I just need to hear the truth from strangers some times. Z does have emotional issues, sees himself as an amazing dad yet doesn't fight or stick to when he is actually scheduled to have O.
Honestly, an amazing dad
Honestly, an amazing dad would do a lot more to help his kid with issues like his speech etc...It seems he feels burdened and is willing to just let the kid drift.
I think sometimes people can be a little..direct.. on here. It honestly is easier to see problems with someone else's situation more clearly than our own. And.. honestly, your BF is not painted in the most flattering light with regards to his child.
I think it's a fairly sad situation... but I think your BF has problems of his own that are making him not be a great father.. and those shortcomings may also make him a poor partner for you.
Very true, I do deserve
Very true, I do deserve better I know, I have very low self esteem and I've always overcompensated in all friendships and relationships by overlooking the negative aspects. It's hard to hear the truth but strangers will surely give it to ya!
For at least half of the
For at least half of the decade+ I have been active on StepTalk I was on team never give up and don't tolerate any crap from the toxic opposition or toxic prior relationship crotch droppings.
My perspective has shifted notably. I still follow my historical perspective when the SO has their head in the game and will firmly deal with the toxic opposition or any crap from the prior relationship spawn. If the SO has no testicular fortitude, is wearing clouded rose colored glasses and is blind to the antics of toxic spawn, and does not put their partner and marriage first..... I am on team write off the idiot and move on.
I was ready to name Z as an idiot and tell you to write he and his toxic crotch dropping off and get them out of your life. Even his amazing family is not worth tolerating Z's failed spawning and parenting performance.
Then I got to the last paragraph that revealed that there is hope for Z and for the relationship. Most importantly, there is hope that you will not have to carry a failed man and his toxic spawn to stay in this relationship. I would recommend that as a next step that you sit down with Z to create a clearly documented standard of behavior and performance that O will be held to. Make it clear to Z and ultimately to O that failure to comply with the standards of behavior and performance will be met with escalating age appropriate consequences until O pulls his head out of his own ass and performs. Even is Z is capable of stepping up as a parent and applying discipline for O's crap he is a BioParent. He will Z out to his historical perspective periodically. As a Sparent you are not only an equity life partner for Z, and he for you, you are also an equity parent to any Spawn in your marriage/home. When Z Z's out to his historical behavior, you will need to smack him about the head and shoulders with a rolled up copy of the Standards of Behavior and Performance (figuratively of course) and get him reconnected with reality regarding O.
Based on what you wrote regarding Z and regarding the relationship that you have with Z and his family.... I would say that there is hope for a positive long term equity life partnership. It won't be easy, but it might just work.... if Z can keep his head out of his own Disney Dad ass and keep his toxic spawn under control.
Good luck.
I'm sorry, but a man who
I'm sorry, but a man who treated a woman like dirt and called her his "doormat" for SEVEN YEARS, and then blames her for "purposefully" getting pregnant is not exactly a person of character. I think you need to take off the rose-colored glasses here. This man is not a good person, and he is the problem here, not his poor kid (who you hate for not liking pizza, wtf?)
Do yourself and O a favor and give up now.
Right. Maybe she did get
Right. Maybe she did get pregnant on purpose, but she wasn't the only one responsible for it. That BF sure had his fun with her for SEVEN years.
"I'm in love with an AMAZING man" who is perfect in every way except that he's a terrible father and a selfish, entitled user. I don't get the attraction.
Harsh? Yes. And I'm sorry for that OP, but he used a woman that you say he didn't even like for his own pleasure, and now he doesn't seem to like the resulting offspring and refuses to parent him. AND he's blaming YOU for not being able to take the child's negativity directed at you. There's just nothing healthy about this.
Yep. Pretty sure BM here got
Yep. Pretty sure BM here got pregnant on purpose, too, but DH knows he was a dumbass for trusting someone he barely knew to be honest about birth control.
I don't hate the kid for
I don't hate the kid for hating pizza, just to clarify. I was just giving an example of how the child insists he hates literally everything, including pizza.
I get it - but the way you
I get it - but the way you talk about him is just ... awful. He's a kid.
It doesn't matter, a kid can
It doesn't matter, a kid can still be a deeply rooted awful person. I came in here to vent and seek advice, not be criticized.
Give up
he is not amazing. He is a poor excuse for a man who isn't parenting his child, a child who happens to not be a clone of his dad which makes him unlovable. How can u be an educated woman and even consider speaking to let alone dating someone who describes a woman this way?
"woman he is absolutely disgusted by! He never brought her around his family, friends, or his life in general. His sister has never even met the woman! This woman just doesn't fit into his world and I feel like an a$$ even saying that. She was available for him at 3am to do the dirty, then leave and he wouldn't speak to her for weeks/months."
he found her attractive enough to have sex with. People like him should not be able to breed and I am concerned about your inability to see the real quality of this man. Seems the family $$$ are blinding u.
Exactly. She wasn't too
Exactly. She wasn't too disgusting for him to use and f*** like she was a piece of meat. But she's the low class one here supposedly.
I'm not denying that the
I'm not denying that the money and lifestyle seem great...hence my honesty about it all. I do appreciate your bluntness.
I am the mother of three
I am the mother of three adult daughters. My advice to them is always to stay away from guys with kids. Why burden yourself with this guy's kid? You sound like you have your shit together. Find a man that can start a family with you where you don't have to deal with his bad decisions from a prior relationship.
I appreciate the advice,
I appreciate the advice, especially coming from a mother because I don't have one around to ask the motherly advice from. Nobody I know has ever been in this situation aka dated a guy with a kid.
I’m sorry, any man that
I’m sorry, any man that refers to a woman as a doormat probably isn’t a very nice person really.
If the guy speaks like this in front of child, then the child isn’t going to be respectful of other people is he?
The guy needs to do a lot of soul searching and adapt his parenting style if you and he are going to have a successful long term relationship.
be careful if potentially having children with someone that could potentially treat you the same as the ex one day.....
some people change as they get older and become stable people if they weren’t already. With others they don’t change, and once put into a certain situation that ‘dark side’ comes out, whatever that may be for that individual..
^^^THIS^^^
OP, my DH bred with not one, but two low class women. Yet in all the years I've know him, and despite all the truly awful things those women have done to him/us, I've never heard him speak about them the way your bf speaks of the mother of his child.
You say you want children. Logically, you should be searching for a man with good genes who has the potential to be a good partner and a good father. Basic kindness also goes a long way.
Z is showing you that he is not a good parent at all, and that he's lacking in both integrity and empathy. His petulance and unwillingness to listen or consider your concerns and expert advice is also a huge red flag. Strip away the wealth and I think you'll see that he's not a good catch at all. He isn't even a good human.
Z sounds like a big AH.
Z sounds like a big AH.
I love women. You see things
I love women. You see things so much more comprehensively than men do. Or at lease far more comprehensively than I do.
After reading the ongoing comments.... I am on team boot Z's ass. He is a dirtbag. No matter how much money he and his family have, he is trash.
Agreed with others here. Z is
Agreed with others here. Z is a big problem.
I would definitely tie O's behavior and attitude to poor parenting and to his parents' attitudes. Kids are good at picking up on things. Likely, O knows he's unwanted and unloved. Tough for anyone to deal with. For a kid without the maturity and emotional resources? You're likely to get big behavior problems, personality disorders, all kinds of things. The kid's basically pawned off on an electronic babysitter.
The helplessness and attitude may well be him "testing." Deep down, kids need discipline (reasonable discipline -- not abuse). It helps them know that they're safe and loved. Someone's in charge. Someone has their back. Now, kids aren't aware of that on a conscious level, but it's true. I'd bet O is testing everyone, trying to see where the boundaries are. So far, there are no real boundaries. So, he keeps pushing and testing. No boundaries. He feels unsafe. Like no one else is in control or caring about him. Talk about scary.
Z and BM are doing this child no favors. At all. I get that O is difficult to be around. I feel that way about SS9. But from what you describe, I also feel for O. Talk about a sucky way to live.
And, yeah, Z's behavior and words regarding O and BM are a huge red flag. I was told, always look at how your potential mate talks about and treats exes. Says a lot about who they are as a person.
Interesting how the BM was
Interesting how the BM was good enough to have sex with for 7 years but he maintains she isn't sh!t, that she's beneath him. He damn sure wasn't saying that all those 3am booty calls now was he? Please look at your BF's actions and how he treated this woman and how she allowed herself to be treated. This kid needs some major therapy because both of his parents are not able to coparent effectively AT ALL. This child is pawned off to whoever will take him and given an iPad to entertain him. No wonder he doesn't know how to do basics like bath and do simple chores. No one takes time to teach him, to nurture and love him.
Your BF makes great money and his son doesn't even benefit from it. So now he decides to put him in therapy? The biggest issue here is your BF. Unless you see significant change I can't see why he's such a catch and why waste your time continuing this relationship. Look at his actions or lack thereof and proceed accordingly. This is not the kind of man you would wish to settle with and have a child.
I'd walk away. Your life with
I'd walk away. Your life with the kid is going to be miserable, and Z is doing nothing to parent the kid and improve that. And frankly, I'd be disgusted with a man who kept another woman around to use as his doormat for 7 years. I wouldn't want to be with such a man in the first place.
This guy sounds horrible, and
This guy sounds horrible, and you clearly hate his kid. I don’t care how great you think he is, not only is he not the right guy for you due to you hating his kid, but no man who uses a woman that way is a good man. And the whole ‘she got pregnant on purpose’ is bullsh*t. I’m pretty sure BM1 in my case got pregnant on purpose too but DH was the moron who stuck it in there so I blame him far more for his stupidity than anything else. He knew she was insane yet slept with her anyways, he’s got nobody to blame but himself. Your BF sounds like a misogynistic ahole, and you hate his kid, it’s pretty clear this isn’t the relationship for you.
Thank you
Thank you to everyone who commented. I was scared to walk away but I decided enough was enough and you guys were right, its not the kid...its Z. He is a narcissist and has zero respect for women. My mind was clouded and wrong, a true man would never treat a woman or speak of the mother of his child in that way. And ya know whats a lovely feeling? Realizing that the life he coud give me, I can give that life to myself. I appreciate this forum and all of you. It was tought o hear the truth but the truth will set you free as they say.
I think you are making the
I think you are making the best choice. Even if Z became the perfect partner, and follows through with the therapy, by age 9, after years of poor parenting and neglect, it's going to be an uphill battle. O's attitudes and behaviors are deeply ingrained. I hope O gets the help he needs, but if you and Z aren't 100 percent a team and in agreement on how to manage him, i don't know if it's possible to make this work. And Z sounds like a real a-hole.
For some reason this post
For some reason this post popped up today. I know I'm late to the party but I really want to add my thoughts if you decide to come back and re-read any of this later.
First, being together for 18 months is not long enough to get to know someone. I'm not sure if you live together, but if you don't then it's even easier to hid those faults for longer. When you first said Z was an amazing, perfect partner, but then said he wouldn't listen to you when you have an opinion, that is far from being a good partner. He was gaslighting you. He established that he will conduct the household the family and household the way he wants and is not willing to listen to your perspective. Because he doesn't want to face any of his faults. Which brings me to my next thought...
Z is definitely a narcissist. If you've returned to read these comments, it's probably because you're still with him or considering getting back with him. You should look up videos and articles about the signs of narcissism and tick off the things he matches with. Telling you how absolutely crazy his ex is, and maybe all of his exes are: check. Not taking any responsibility for his actions, mistakes, or bad choices: check. Focused on looks, money and status: check. Love bombing: I'm assuming check, since it takes a ton of roping in to stick around hemming and hawing about a serious situation like this.
Like others have said, I really feel bad for this kid. His parents openly dispise each other, his dad doesn't want him, and it sounds like the BM neglects him. Not to mention he's bringing in another parental figure into the mix. I'm not sure how many other women Z has brought around him, but if you aren't the first then being around you is understandably, extremely hard. His 8/9 year old brain can't handle processing this level of stress and confusion. Adults hardly can as it is.
Always remember this is an issue with Z. Not the kid. Look up the early signs of narcissistic abuse and learn them for the future. I hope this guy's out of your life by now.
Thank you!
I remembered that I had gone on here so long ago but haven't been back. You are 100% that Z is a narcissist and I am free of him for good for quite some time and I am sooooo happy! He still attempts contact as the typical narc hoovering but I have been strong and have stayed No Contact! Thanks again and I hope you're well!
You're a smart woman. You
You're a smart woman. You already know the answer to your question, but I'll tell it to you anyway. Yes, you need to leave it all behind, now, and you will find a much better situation with someone you will love just as much, if not more, and who will not have the nasty baggage. You're worth more than this. Best!
Absolutely, yes, you should
Absolutely, yes, you should walk away. You're miserable now and it will absolutely only get worse after you marry. And you will absolutely fall in love again. *smile*
Update!
I haven't been on in quite some time and I wanted to just let you beautiful souls know that I am 100% free! I left Z awhile ago and had to do some SERIOUS healing! I spent months sad and then one day I just decided to stop ruminating and get down to the facts: Z is a narcissist and abusive one at that! I love children and O is one I will always pray for. Thank you, all of you!
For starters thanks for
For starters thanks for coming back and giving an update!!!
Good for you!!! Wahooo!!!
I haven't previously read any of this until today when it popped up to the top with your comment. Woman you dodged a bullet there!
With your background and upbringing around kiddos it seemed so unhealthy for you to have the comments and thoughts that you were having. Your 2 posts alone are radiating a much different person than the one previously posting.
Good for you! I hope you find your happiness and never give into that AH (still trying to contact you.. so you can be the new 'doormat' f*** him! - NOT literally :)- )
Rock on girl!!!
The kid is never going away,
The kid is never going away, so you're going to have to decide whether or not your SO's money and status (which you really like-who wouldnt) is worth a hellacious life. PS, no way in Hades oilfield I create kids with the guy. He isn't a good father and I be scared for my bio kid's life. You know you should run.