Healthy Dad-Daughter Relationship at ANY Age
I had a very interesting conversation with my SO the other day about his absentee ex wife and involvement in her daughters' life I thought I would share:
My SO left BM because he fell out of love with her. She didn't do much to contribute to the marriage and it fell apart because he lost respect for her. She expected that once she got married this person would take care of her for the rest of her life. What I mean by that is...cooking, cleaning, caring for the children, working etc. Anything that a person would do in life (marriage or not), she thought he would always do for her. She expected to have these 2 babies and then SO would just take them away leaving her with no responsibility. I'm sure it was...I'll squeeze em out but then I will be tired for AT LEAST 20 years after that so I'm going to need help...aka - everything done for me forever. That being said, SO took his kids EVERYWHERE. Soccer practice, softball games, vacations, holidays etc...most of which did not include her and that was HER choice. As a result, the girls obviously were much closer to SO which is understandable. They didn't have a fantastic relationship to BM and did not depend on her because they really didn't know how to.
Believe it or not this has caused some disagreements between me and SO. I don't argue that he shouldn't be close to them or even AS close as he is because they did need him growing up since BM was an absentee mother. However, anytime I have mentioned something about a thing I did by myself when I was young he feels sorry for me that I didn't go with my dad. This makes me VERY angry because BOTH of my parents were loving, and nurturing, responsible people who are STILL together after more than 30 years. I don't believe I was left out I never felt abandoned I just really wanted independence and responsibility and my parents encouraged that. I had a normal, healthy childhood. I think it's a good thing and it doesn't seem like my SO believes that to be true. For example, I told him that after college I took a nail tech class at a local cosmetology school because I loved to do manicures/pedicures etc. Well, when it came time for my state board exam, my friend who was supposed to go with me (you have to have a model with you to take the test) was suddenly unable to go and my mother had to work. The only person available was my father and he offered to go with me like any great man would do to step up for his daugther. In telling this story to SO I had mentioned my dad was the only person left and my SO said that he felt sad that I wouldn't have just originally asked my dad. :jawdrop: I knew what he was getting at so I said look...just because your kids grew up with an absentee mother doesn't mean that I did. AND just because you HAD to do all the things with your girls that mothers are supposed to do doesn't mean that I had that kind of a relaitonship with my father. My dad did NOT accompany me to gynecology exams, he did not come with me to girl scout meetings my MOTHER did because she was a woman and she wanted to be involved and be supportive of her daughter. Just because your ex wife couldn't be bothered doesn't mean that all mothers are like this. Therefore, I did NOT exclude my father from things, he did boy things with my little brother and I did girl things with my mother. I said no offense but I think it's a bit more functional and healthy than the situation YOU were/are in with your daughters who don't trust their mother to discuss periods or any other female issue with. It creeps me out too...they talk about their perionds with him and they talk about when their mother is on her period and is a huge bitch to them. Come on ladies!! I got really mad one day and said to him...they are both SO inappropriate, I don't care what the relationship with their mother is. They can talk about it amongst themselves or with girlfriends but that's enough of the converstaions with YOU about female body issues!! I know they are comfortable but what I don't get is how the hell is HE comfortable talking about that?!
After this conversation he sat for a minute and said...wow I never thought of it that way. I never thought about how my relationship with my kids would have been affected if BM was supportive of them and strong. He apologized to me and said he never meant to make me feel as if I don't have a good relationship with my dad just because he didn't do all the girl things with me and that it IS more functional than his kids' situation. Then I felt bad. Why do I feel badly about this now? I wasn't attacking him just simply explaining what I consider to be a healthy dad-daughter relationship. Was I too mean/harsh? I get defensive if anyone questions my parents and their parenting skills because they were amazing parents and I feel grateful. To be clear - I do think that he is a great father and I remind him often as well. Part of why I love him is because he was such a great dad.
I feel mean! 
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I have considered this as
I have considered this as well snickers...it makes me nervous and there is already some jealousy. It is mostly on their part because I LIVE with SO and they don't and they get mad when he does things like go to a Red Sox game with me and not with them. I was really mad when that came up but now I don't care because it's not going to make us stop being a couple...just because they don't like it. I fear us all being in a room and him being affectionate with them (not inappropriate) in front of me and me feeling uncomfortable with that. I'm sure they worry about the same thing in reverse.
I always like hearing from
I always like hearing from you maux...you have great perspective and have been through a lot!
I am glad at least that it seems he understands me and is not trying to suggest my parents were "wrong" for the way I was raised. It's why I get defensive but I do need to relax with that because it's not always the case. I agree also with young adults being independent and self sufficient and likewise, he looks perplexed when I mention that I've paid my car insurance since 18 years old or that I paid for gas/excursions etc as a teenager. Like you, my parents helped me but only because I was working and because I was proving that I wanted and could handle responsibility. What's crazy is that he had the same expectations as a teenager when he was growin up! Does he forget when he was a child? He had an upbringing similar in some ways to mine. His dad was in the military and they lived everywhere but otherwise both parents were very involved with their 3 kids and he was out on his own at 19 and perfectly functional and responsible. Yet his own kids have absolutely no clue what it means to have grown up responsibility. How does this happen? He knows what he had, he knows what made him a responsible individual why not have expectations from 23 year olds??? I don't get it. So my parents are assholes for forcing me to clean my room or clean my dishes after eating? Yeah that makes sense.
I think similarly SO is
I think similarly SO is sloooowly realizing the same kinds of things. I met his parents not too long ago. Yup even though we've been together 1.5 years JUST met them oh about a month ago! Anyone who knows that was like...um you are just meeting them for the first time now? WEIRD. Yes I agree it is weird and I don't feel any guilt when expressing this to SO either! He knew how much it meant to me but yet it took a decade for him to get off his ass and make it happen. Anyway I'm babbling here. His mom and dad seemed very nice. His dad is a lot like mine which he has said to me before as well...now I see why. His mother AND sister are the kind of people who would take anyone in off the streets and take care of them until they get on their feet. They are super nice people, very genuine and sweet. He loves both of his parents and appreciates how he was raised too but until I met his mother I don't know that I completely believed him on that. She was kind to me and told his sister later that day when we were gone that she understood why he loves me so much and that I am a great person. I was really flattered and we did have a nice time together.
It's funny because SO has said those exact words to me before with regard to SD's, I want them to have it "easier." Or "I want to be able to provide things for them that I didn't have." Soooo...you traveled the globe and went on family vacations, had healthy relationships with your siblings and parents, played sports and had a billion friends. What am I missing here? Doesn't sound to me like you were deprived! I wanted for nothing, I was a happy kid my parents were happy...very normal family life. I have told SO that what he considers making "easy" for them might be doing just the opposite. It's like that old saying...give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime. Well maybe it's a little different but the idea is the same. He does these things for them because he feels sorry for them having to do any work and then he wonders why they can't do things on their own - they don't know HOW! Like a few weeks ago SD20 got a flat tire and called him during the day asking him what to do except she left a vm saying um oops I left my phone in CA at my friends so I'll try to call you later. He told me the story later and I said well...what did you do, did you bail her out daddy? SHOCKINGLY he didn't! He said to her, you saved $200 from your last job, fix the tire, what do you want me to do about it? She pouted and pitched a fit but the result was the same...SD had to learn to do it on her own. However, he was so confused as to why she called him in the first place and was like when are these kids going to get off the teet?? Well they don't have to dear because they know you'll swoop in and save them every time they yelp. I will say I was impressed and proud of him for that last thing. You gotta start somewhere and even though I disagree with the way he's created these monsters to begin with at least he's acknowledging that he must do something about it now. SD23 is a LOT better with her responsibilities. Aside from the latest, "just picked up SD23 on my health insurance" issue, she actually works, pays her bills and is actively saving for her own apartment which is positive for her AND for us.
It used to be that I couldn't say the tiniest little thing about them to him and he would get defensive but now he actually listens and values my opinions. I told him way back to have an open mind or else there was no way we could have a conversation about anything serious. I said you are a great dad but no one is perfect and because you are not a perfect parent, sometimes perspective and constructive criticism are extremely valuable.
"love bombing" I LOVE that!
"love bombing" I LOVE that! I'm stealin it!!
Crayon it's women like our SO's exes that make us other productive, intelligent women look terrible! I saw another post on here that said setting us back 100's of years that is exactly how I classify these people. It really bothers me because I work so hard to make crappy money but after this divorce is final, SO will be paying BM outwards of $4000/month in alimony and probably have to pick up all her medical bills. She gets half the equity in the house, 60% of the 401k etc...it's outrageous. Yet she sits on her ass while I work. WOW. I keep telling him, be thankful you're not in Mass where they believe in LIFETIME ALIMONY! No way in hell would I marry him if he had to pay that fat ass for the rest of our life together. It also irritates the shit out of me that I really want kids and I would be the best, most involved mother in the world yet BM gets the honor of doing that and takes no pride in raising her own children. If I had a baby there's not a chance I would willingly sit out on my parenting duties.